Useless Information about the 2009-10 NBA season

All about the 2009-2010 NBA Season

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Useless Information about the 2009-10 NBA season

Postby John Grasso » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:03 pm

Some useless information about the 2009-10 NBA season

442 players including 56 rookies
25 others on rosters who did not play including 9 rookies

Of the 442 players:
Washington had the most - 24
Houston had next most - 21
Orlando had fewest - 12
Lakers were next fewest - 13

Of the 56 rookies who played
Houston, Memphis and Oklahoma City each had 5
Miami, Lakers and Orlando each had 0

Of the 25 who did not play
Chicago, Miami and Washington each had 3

Most common surname - Williams - 11 players
5 - Brown, Smith, Thomas
4 - Davis, Hunter, Johnson, Jones

Most common first name - Chris, Jason - 10 each
7 - Mike (but 3 more Michael)
6 - Anthony, Marcus

372 played for only one team
54 played with two teams
3 others were with two teams but only played for 1 of them
2 others started with one team, played for another
and then returned to original team and played
2 others started with one team, went to another
team and didn't play and returned to original team and played
4 played for three teams
5 players were with three teams but only played for 2 of them

At least one of the 442 wore the following uniform numbers
00, 0, every number from 1-38, 40-45, 47, 50-52, 54-55, 72, 77,
88, 90, 92.
39 different players wore 2 different uniform numbers.
Only Will Conroy (#12, 5) did so with the same team.
Most popular uniform # 3 (21 players)
Next most popular -#1 (20 players), #5 and #7 (19 each)
Only one player wore #28, 36, 37, 38, 47, 51, 54, 72, 77, 88, 90, 92
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Re: Useless Information about the 2009-10 NBA season

Postby MCT » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:48 pm

John Grasso wrote:Of the 442 players:
Washington had the most - 24
Houston had next most - 21

Does anyone know what the record is for most players to play for a team in a single season?

Orlando had fewest - 12
Lakers were next fewest - 13

I’m surprised to see that a team used only 12 players; since 2005 teams have been required to carry a minimum of 13 players, even though only 12 can be active for any particular game. The NBA has long allowed teams to temporarily drop down to one below the minimum while “between transactions”, which under current rules would be 12, but a team can’t stay there indefinitely. It looks like the Magic did have a 13th player, Adonal Foyle, but he was injured all year and did not appear in any games.

Even at that, the Magic and Lakers seem to have both 1) carried the minimum number of players all year and 2) kept the same players all year without making a single roster change. My sense is that this is not common. Have any other teams in recent years used only 12 or 13 players?

3 others were with two teams but only played for 1 of them
2 others started with one team, played for another
and then returned to original team and played
2 others started with one team, went to another
team and didn't play and returned to original team and played
4 played for three teams
5 players were with three teams but only played for 2 of them

Who were the players in these categories?
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Postby Mike Goodman » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:09 pm

Orlando used only 12 players all year, and they all averaged between 13 and 35 minutes.

They used 10 guys in their first postseason game. Brandon Bass and Anthony Johnson did not play.
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Re: Useless Information about the 2009-10 NBA season

Postby John Grasso » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:01 pm

MCT wrote:Does anyone know what the record is for most players to play for a team in a single season?



I believe the NBA record is 27 by Dallas in the 1996-97 season.
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Re: Useless Information about the 2009-10 NBA season

Postby John Grasso » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:09 am

MCT wrote:
3 others were with two teams but only played for 1 of them
2 others started with one team, played for another
and then returned to original team and played
2 others started with one team, went to another
team and didn't play and returned to original team and played
4 played for three teams
5 players were with three teams but only played for 2 of them

Who were the players in these categories?


1 -Joe Alexander (MILdnp-CHI), Chris Quinn (MIAdnp-NJN), Alonzo Gee (WAS-SANdnp)
2 - Mike Harris (HOU-WAS-HOU), Shavlik Randolph (MIA-POR-MIA),
3 - Zydrunas Ilgauskas (CLE-WASdnp-CLE), Brian Cardinal (MIN-NYKdnp-MIN)
4 - Cedric Jackson (CLE-SAN-WAS), Acie Law (GST-CHB-CHI), Garrett Temple (HOU-SAC-SAN), Hilton Armstrong (NOH-SAC-HOU)
5 - Drew Gooden (DAL-WASdnp-LAC), Jason Hart (MIN-PHXdnp-NOH),
Larry Hughes (NYK-SACdnp-CHB), Coby Karl (CLE-GST-DENdnp),
Joey Dorsey (HOU-SAC-TORdnp)

Actually there's a remote chance that Gee and Karl might still play for their teams since they're still alive in the playoffs.

The second category is one that I'd like to see an alltime list of. I know of a few but none of the record books I'm aware of list them that way.
(start with one team, play for another and return to original team and play).
I believe Herb Williams in the late 90s played for the Knicks, was traded to the Raptors, and returned to the Knicks.
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Postby MCT » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:38 am

Mike Goodman wrote:Orlando used only 12 players all year, and they all averaged between 13 and 35 minutes.

They used 10 guys in their first postseason game. Brandon Bass and Anthony Johnson did not play.

Those two guys played the least of the 12 during the regular season. Johnson played in only 31 games, Bass in 50. Of the remaining players, eight appeared in at least 72 games, while a ninth played in virtually every game outside of 16-game stretch that I'm assuming he missed due to an injury (Jameer Nelson). The remaining player is Ryan Anderson, who appeared in 63 games.

The 16-game stretch that Nelson missed was in November and December. During this period, the Magic did not sign anyone to fill his roster spot, but just plowed on essentially with only 11 available players. Their roster management this season is like something out of the '70s.

Looking over the Magic's inactive list moves, I see that Foyle was briefly moved to the active roster for a few short stretches here and there, while other players out with short-term injuries were placed on the inactive list. I don't know if this was just done for appearance's sake, or if Foyle could have played but just wasn't ever used in a game.
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Postby MCT » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:57 am

From a point early in the 1977-78 season until the end of the 1980-81 season, NBA active rosters were only 11. During that period, the following teams went an entire season using 11 players:

1979-80 Sonics
1980-81 Bucks, Knicks and Suns

For 1981-82, the active roster size was increased back to 12, although teams still had the option of carrying only 11 players until around 1985. Here are some teams from the post-1981 '80s and early '90s that used only 12 players:

1983-84 Celtics and Jazz
1984-85 Mavericks and Blazers
1985-86 Nuggets
1986-87 Jazz
1987-88 Mavericks
1988-89 Cavaliers and Lakers
1990-91 Bulls

I wouldn't be surprised if the Magic are the first team to do this since the '90-'91 Bulls, although I don't know that for certain.
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Postby mtamada » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Mike Goodman wrote:Orlando used only 12 players all year, and they all averaged between 13 and 35 minutes.


That's amazing, perhaps one of the most even-handed uses of a roster ever, and perhaps the deepest use of a bench ever.

How to measure? Obviously a perfectly egalitarian 10-man squad would have every single player play 24 minutes per game (plus overtime), but no NBA team achieves that. And there are several different ways to measure deviation from that perfectly egalitarian distribution. Do we want to emphasize teams which avoid the "King James and Supporting Cast" syndrome (to mix a couple of different superstar-led teams, i.e. teams which have several major contributors vs those with one dominant contributor)? Or do we want to emphasize teams which have rotations which go 10 men and even 12 men deep? E.g. the 1975 Golden State Warriors were surely the championship team which went deepest into their bench, using a 10-man rotation. But they were also the epitome of the superstar-led championship teams, with Rick Barry leading a roster which had couple of future sometime all-stars who were only rookies (Wilkes and Phil Smith) and pretty much a bunch of journeymen after that.

For income distribution, the Gini Coefficient is often used as a measure of income inequality, but it takes some calculation. Faster and easier to calculate is a measure of species diversity, Simpson's Diversity Index (which is also used by economists to measure monopolistic or oligopolistic domination of markets though they call it the Herfindahl Index, and is also used by USNews's Best Colleges guide to measure ethnic diversity on college campuses). It's the sum of the squares of the fraction of minutes played by each player.

Looking at the first three teams which came to my mind when I thought of egalitarian teams, I compared the 2010 Orlando Magic, 1975 Golden State Warriors, and 1976 Cleveland Cavaliers. A low index number here means high egalitarianism. The results are:

.0989 2010 Orl
.1095 1975 GSW
.1105 1976 Cle

So under this measure the 2010 Orlando Magic may indeed be the champs of egalitarianism (as measured by minutes played).

There are a ton of other diversity indexes and measures of inequality out there, and there's also the question of should we make an adjustment for injuries and trades, which would cause the measured egalitarianism to fall even though the coach may still have been using a highly egalitarian rotation. There's also the possibility of looking at points scored rather than minutes played. But the quick-and-dirty measure confirms that the 2010 Magic have to be under consideration for most egalitarian ever.

Simpson's Diversity Index BTW tends to put the most weight on the higher minute players. I.e. it is not sensitive to whether a team used 12 or 11 or 15 players, and it is not sensitive to the minutes played by the benchwarmers. Instead it is most affected by how many minutes are played by the leading guys, do they play a Rick Barry-ish 40.4 minutes per game, or a Jim Chones-ish 33.4 mpg. On the whole, that's a strength but it does mean that this measure does not pay much attention to the question of whether a rotation went 10 men deep as the Warriors did, vs. 12 men deep as Orlando did. So it is not a perfect measure.

Another easy-to-calculate measure is entropy, but it is somewhat the opposite of Simpson's Diversity Index, and is most influenced by the players with tiny numbers of minutes. So a team that used 15 players as the 1976 Cavaliers did will have an advantage in terms of looking egalitarian compared to the 12-man Orlando roster. So that does not seem like a fair way of comparing.
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Postby MCT » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:52 pm

mtamada wrote:So a team that used 15 players as the 1976 Cavaliers did will have an advantage in terms of looking egalitarian compared to the 12-man Orlando roster. So that does not seem like a fair way of comparing.

During the 1975-76 season, the Cavs really only made two roster moves, both on the same day, November 27. That was the deadline for players to be placed on waivers before contracts became guaranteed for the reminder of the season, and was a major transaction deadline in those days, usually seeing far more activity than the February trade deadline. The team had started the season carrying 13 players, with Austin Carr on the injured list; they got down to 12 by activating Carr and waiving Butch Beard (Beard would subsequently be claimed off waivers by the Knicks). In addition, Steve Patterson and Eric Fernsten were traded to the Bulls for Nate Thurmond and Rowland Garrett.

Taking this into account, the usage of each spot on the Cavs' roster was as follows:

Brewer 82
Chones 82
Cleamons 82
Russell 82
Snyder 82
Smith 81
Walker 81
Beard/Carr 80
Patterson/Thurmond 79
Lambert 54
Fernsten/Garrett 45
Witte 22

The top nine spots played in 731 out of a possible 738 games. Each of the top nine also appeared in all 13 of Cleveland's playoff games, except for Chones, who only played in 7 (I assume he was injured). Of the others, Witte played in 7 (pressed into service due to Chones' absence?), Lambert in 6, and Garrett in 4.

The '75 Warriors made only one move: on March 1, they waived little-used rookie Frank Kendrick and signed veteran Bill Bridges (who had been waived by the Lakers earlier in the season). The 1975-76 team may have been even more egalitarian, though, using the same 12 players all season long, as follows:

Dudley 82
G. Johnson 82
Ray 82
Smith 82
Wilkes 82
C. Johnson 81
Barry 81
Dickey 79
Williams 77
Davis 72
Hawkins 32
Mullins 29

The top ten spots played in 800 out of a possible 820 games. In the playoffs, the top seven players listed above appeared in all 13 of the Warriors' playoff games, while Dickey played in 12, Williams and Davis in 11, Mullins in 8, and Hawkins in 5.

Here are regular-season games played for the '09-'10 Magic:

Howard 82
Redick 82
Williams 82
Barnes 81
Gortat 81
Carter 75
Pietrus 75
Lewis 72
Nelson 65
Anderson 63
Bass 50
Johnson 31
(Foyle 0)
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Postby MCT » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:49 pm

John Grasso sent me an e-mail off-list with a spreadsheet he has put together showing how many players each team has used each season. From John's info, I need to add one team to the list in my earlier post:

MCT wrote:From a point early in the 1977-78 season until the end of the 1980-81 season, NBA active rosters were only 11. During that period, the following teams went an entire season using 11 players:

1979-80 Sonics
1980-81 Bucks, Knicks and Suns

For 1981-82, the active roster size was increased back to 12, although teams still had the option of carrying only 11 players until around 1985. Here are some teams from the post-1981 '80s and early '90s that used only 12 players:

1983-84 Celtics and Jazz
1984-85 Mavericks, Nuggets and Blazers [EDIT: add Nuggets]
1985-86 Nuggets
1986-87 Jazz
1987-88 Mavericks
1988-89 Cavaliers and Lakers
1990-91 Bulls

I wouldn't be surprised if the Magic are the first team to do this since the '90-'91 Bulls, although I don't know that for certain.

From John's information, it looks like the Magic are in fact the first team to go an entire season using only 12 players since the 1990-91 Bulls.

Outside of the period in the late '70s and early '80s when the maxmium active roster size was reduced to 11, the last team to go an entire season using only 11 players was the 1973-74 Warriors. (Note that teams had the option to carry only 11 players on their active roster, instead of the usual 12, up until the mid '80s.) Before the Warriors, the last team to do this was the 1966-67 76ers; before that, it was a lot more common. The last team to go an entire season using only 10 players was the 1958-59 Lakers. Ten players was never really common, but there are a handful of other teams from the late '40s or '50s that did it.

MCT wrote:Have any other teams in recent years used only 12 or 13 players?

Since 2005-06, the NBA minimum roster size has been 13. Besides the 2009-10 Magic (who actually used only 12) and Lakers, I was surprised to see that three other post-2005 teams have used only 13 players. Unlike the Magic and Lakers, however, info in Frank Marousek's transaction archive indicates that each of these teams had additional players who did not appear in any games:

2009-10 Nuggets: The Nuggets essentially carried the same 13 players all year. But right at the end of the season they filled the two available slots on their roster, signing two additional players, who did not appear in any games (Brian Butch and Coby Karl, both signed on April 11, with two games left in the regular season).

2008-09 76ers: In addition to the 13 players who appeared in games, Jason Smith missed the entire season due to injury.

2007-08 Wizards: In addition to the 13 players who appeared in games, Etan Thomas missed the entire season for medical reasons. The transaction archive also shows that they signed Chris Whitney on March 24, and he apparently finished out the season with them without appearing in any games. (I have to wonder if that's correct, though, as Whitney was 36 at the time, hadn't played in the NBA since the 2003-04 season, and has no record of any NBA transactions since.) This team actually came very close to using only 12 players, as one of the 13 players they did use (Mike Wilks) was only with the team for a period of 12 days in December, appearing in 4 games. Aside from the brief additions of Wilks and Whitney, the Wizards had the same 13 players all season. Note that Gilbert Arenas missed much of the season due to injury, only playing in 13 games; with 13 players on the roster and Arenas and Thomas out, there appear to have been long stretches of the season where the Wizards effectively only had 11 active players.
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Re: Useless Information about the 2009-10 NBA season

Postby MCT » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:46 pm

John Grasso wrote:
MCT wrote:Does anyone know what the record is for most players to play for a team in a single season?



I believe the NBA record is 27 by Dallas in the 1996-97 season.


This record was recently broken by the Memphis Grizzlies, who used 28 players over the course of the 2015-16 season.

As of March 10, the Grizzlies had used 22 players, which is a lot, but didn't seem to put them in position to break the record. Then, between March 11 and March 21, due to a rash of injuries, they signed five players to 10-day contracts, bringing their total up to 27. The first player signed during that stretch brought Memphis' 15-man roster to the limit, but they were allowed to sign three additional players under hardship exemptions granted by the league, bringing their overall roster up to 18 players as of March 16. The final player signed during that stretch wasn't signed until some of the earlier 10-day signees' contracts had expired and the Grizzlies' roster had dropped down a notch to 17 (including the newly signed player).

Then, on April 1, the Grizzlies signed Bryce Cotton to a 10-day contract, bringing their player total for the season up to 28. At that point, they were still carrying 17 players on their roster. They later dropped down to 16 by waiving a player (Ryan Hollins), then finished the regular season with 16. For the four games they played after dropping to 16, they carried a player who was out for the season (Jordan Adams) on their 13-man active roster. Mike Conley, Marc Gasol and Brendan Wright, who were also out for the season, were on the inactive list.

The NBA did not allow the Grizzlies to extend their hardship exemption into the postseason. They were only allowed to carry the standard 15 players on their playoff roster (Cotton, who signed a contract for the remainder of the season after his 10-day deal expired, was not on the playoff roster). Due to the injuries, the Grizzlies only actually used 11 players in the playoffs. Conley and Wright were technically listed on the 13-man active roster for all four games, while Gasol and Adams were on the inactive list.
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Re: Useless Information about the 2009-10 NBA season

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu May 05, 2016 8:17 pm

About 26% of the Grizzlies' playoff minutes went to players who were not in the league at the beginning of the season.
Xavier Munford had never been in the league before Mar. 17 . In the postseason, he was their 7th man, going 22 mpg.

Vince Carter, 39, had started 7 games in 4 years. He started all 4 of their playoff games and was their best player by every measure.
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