Kevin Love & 30/30

All about the 2009-2010 NBA Season

Moderator: Brett

Kevin Love & 30/30

Postby Robert Bradley » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:49 am

just to put last night's 30/30 game by kevin love in perspective, it was the first in 28 years, and only the fifth since the NBA/ABA merger.

also, to put wilt chamberlain in proper perspective....

career 30-30 games -

wilt chamberlain - 118
bill russell - 7
walt bellamy - 3
nate thurmond - 3
kareem abdul-jabbar - 2
elvin baylor - 2
elvin hayes - 2
jerry lucas - 2
moses malone - 2
george mikan - 2
bob pettit - 2
willis reed - 2
walter dukes - 1
bailey howell - 1
gus johnson - 1
kevin love - 1
swen nater - 1
robert parish - 1
maurice stokes - 1

career 40-40 games -

wilt chamberlain - 8
everybody else - 0
Author of THE BASKETBALL DRAFT FACT BOOK: A HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL'S COLLEGE DRAFTS
Available at https://Rowman.com

Robert Bradley's Pro Basketball History Revisited Blog
http://apbrbasketball.blogspot.com/
Robert Bradley
Emeritus
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Mike Goodman » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:50 pm

Since 1987, 141 different players have had 20 or more rebounds and 20 or more points in a game.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... i?id=oUvr0

Barkley did it 37 times, Hakeem 35 times, Shaq 34.
70 players have done it more than once, and Love is now one of 52 to do it at least 3 times.

The 25-25 club is much more exclusive, with only 15 players reaching this mark. Only Hakeem (3), Kevin Willis (3), Dwight Howard, and Barkley have done it more than once (since '87).

All of these 25-25 games required at least 39 minutes of action. Willis went 40, 47, and 55 (hitting 35 and 25 in 1993).

Just 3 days after Willis' outburst, Alonzo Mourning (Cha) went for 36-22 in only 28 minutes, in a 127-93 win over Det. If he'd gone 41 minutes (as Love did last night) producing at the same rates, he'd have had some 52 points and 32 rebounds.
`
36% of all statistics are wrong
Mike Goodman
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:10 pm
Location: The Tarheel State

Postby MCT » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:22 pm

Some additional notes and trivia on Love's feat, cobbled from various online sources (e.g., Elias):

--The game in which Moses Malone became the last NBA player to do this was on February 11, 1982, for the Rockets against the Sonics. Malone had 38 points and 32 rebounds in that game (some news reports on Love's 30-30 game have had Malone's points and rebounds totals transposed).

--Robert's info indicates that Malone had two 30-30 games in his NBA career. The other one was on February 9, 1979, for the Rockets against the New Orleans Jazz. Malone had 33 points and 37 rebounds in that contest. This game has the distinction of being the last time to date when any NBA player had more than 35 rebounds in a game.

--Aside from Love and Malone, the last two players to have a 30-30 game are Robert Parish, Warriors vs. Knicks, March 30, 1979 (30 points and 32 rebounds), and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Lakers vs. Nets, February 3, 1978 (37 points and 30 rebounds, in a game that went overtime).

--Robert's info suggests that there have been only five instances of 30-30 games since the NBA-ABA merger. I notice that Swen Nater is on the list of players who have done it, however, but he isn't on the list of the last five ocurrences. Since Nater never played in the NBA until after the merger, it must have happened at least one additional time. (Perhaps the intended meaning of the original source was that a total of five players have done it since the merger, bearing in mind that Malone did it twice? Or could Nater be getting credit for a game that actually happened in the ABA?)

--Love also had five assists in his game. The last player to do 30-30-5 was Robert Parish in the 1979 game mentioned above. Parish was also the last player to go 30-30 against the Knicks. The last before that was Wilt Chamberlain, during the 1966-67 season.

--Michael Beasley went for 30 points in Love's 30-30 game. The last time an NBA team had both 1) a player go 30-30 and 2) a second player with 30 points was the Capital Bullets against the Hawks on November 17, 1973. In that game, Elvin Hayes had 43 points and 32 rebounds for the Bullets, while Phil Chenier scored 34.

--Robert's info indicates that Wilt Chamberlain had 118 30-30 games in his career. 24 of these came in Wilt's rookie season (1959-60).
Last edited by MCT on Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MCT
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:41 pm

Postby D.Highmore » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:53 pm

Swen Nater had 30 points and 33 rebounds for the Bucks against the Hawks, 19/12/76.

In the last 25 years, Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis and Dikembe Mutombo came closest to a 30-30.
D.Highmore
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Postby maltomek46 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:04 pm

Actually, Wilt achieved 30-30 for the first time in just his second game as a pro. Against Pistons (31 October 1959) he scored 36 points and grabbed 34 rebounds. In his next game, four days later, this time against Syracuse, he notched 41 points and 40 rebounds...
Nevertheless, Kevin Love's achievement definitely deserves for the praisers.
maltomek46
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:37 am

Postby MCT » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:12 pm

I just realized that there is another thread, in the Basketball Records forum, with an extensive list of 30-30 games (though the post states that it is "not complete"):

http://apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1 ... ght=#13333

Comparing the list in the last post of that thread to Robert's list of how many times 30-30 was achieved by each player, I only notice two discrepancies:

--Robert's list says Walt Bellamy did 30-30 three times, but I only see him twice on the list in the other thread.

--Robert's list says Wilt did 30-30 118 times, but I count 119 on the list in the other thread. It looks like Wilt's December 30, 1964 performance is erroneously listed twice (once in the correct chronological order, once in a place where a game from late November or early December 1965 would belong).
MCT
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:41 pm

Postby MCT » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:37 pm

A recent thread in the "Biographical Research and Publications" forum has some material from legendary statistician Harvey Pollack, in which he discusses 30-30 games:

NBA.com: The Kevin Love 30-30 game recently prompted you do some digging in terms of all time 30-30 games.

Harvey Pollack: I researched and found that in the history of the league there have been 131 30-30 performances including the one by Kevin Love and it hadn’t been done since Moses Malone in 1982.

Out of that 131 total, Wilt Chamberlain did it 103 times. So that means every player in the history of the league – combined -- did it 28 times and only one other player did it more than twice and that was Nate Thurmond, who did it four times. There were about three or four players that did it twice and the rest were just once and a lot of notable players who never did it at all.

I also checked the rebounding leaders every year. Remember, there weren’t any rebounds kept during the first four years of the league, so, there are only 60 rebounding champions. I checked the rebounding winners each season and how many times they accomplished a 30-30 and it was either one or zero.

That’s another crowning achievement of Wilt’s career that nobody even mentions today because most of the writers today weren’t covering NBA basketball when Wilt was playing and he hasn’t played since 1973.

I always check history whenever a record is tied or broken. It was a surprise to me that Wilt did it so many times. The season in which Wilt scored 100 points – 1961-62 -- he actually did a 30-30 31 times. Gives you an idea of how far ahead he was against all of the players he was with.

NBA.com: The 30-30 accomplishment seems like a natural addition to the Harvey Pollack Stat Book.

Harvey Pollack: Absolutely, it will be a notable addition. In next year’s book, I will have a complete 30-30 list. Then the list will show how many times each one of these players won a rebounding title and the players who never did it and how many rebounding titles they won. For example, Dennis Rodman won 7 rebounding titles but he never accomplished a 30-30.

The complete thread is at http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2050. Note that there is some discrepancy between the numbers Pollack mentions and some of those discussed earlier in this thread. It isn't clear to me if Pollack's numbers include the playoffs or if they are regular season only; this might explain some of the differences, but not all of them.
MCT
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:41 pm

Postby Robert Bradley » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:13 am

so they're making a big deal about kevin love approaching moses malone's string of 51 consecutive double-doubles saying it's a record.

well, not so fast. he's been extremely impressive, but in 1961-62 wilt had 80 straight games of at least 25 pts and 15 rebounds. his season lows were 26 points in a game and 16 rebounds in another.

moses' 51 straight games is certainly not a record.
Author of THE BASKETBALL DRAFT FACT BOOK: A HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL'S COLLEGE DRAFTS
Available at https://Rowman.com

Robert Bradley's Pro Basketball History Revisited Blog
http://apbrbasketball.blogspot.com/
Robert Bradley
Emeritus
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Mike Goodman » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:52 pm

This misunderstanding probably evolved from a true statement like, "Love has more consecutive double-doubles than anyone since Moses Malone in 1979-80".

There's no information in that statement regarding who was before Moses. It's the truth and nothing but, yet it's not the whole truth.

If they were great investigative journalists, they probably wouldn't be sportswriters.
`
36% of all statistics are wrong
Mike Goodman
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:10 pm
Location: The Tarheel State

Postby Robert Bradley » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:40 am

but how enlightened do you have to be to think "hey, i bet wilt or kareem did better than that."?
Author of THE BASKETBALL DRAFT FACT BOOK: A HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL'S COLLEGE DRAFTS
Available at https://Rowman.com

Robert Bradley's Pro Basketball History Revisited Blog
http://apbrbasketball.blogspot.com/
Robert Bradley
Emeritus
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Mike Goodman » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:51 am

Maybe nobody was counting, in the '60s ?
If the boxscore archive is incomplete, perhaps there is no official record?
One source just said Moses has the 'modern record'. I guess that's good enough.
`
36% of all statistics are wrong
Mike Goodman
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:10 pm
Location: The Tarheel State

Postby John Grasso » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:17 pm

Mike Goodman wrote:If the boxscore archive is incomplete, perhaps there is no official record?


You hit the nail on the head, Mike, I'm convinced that the NBA (or Elias) does not have the details to support their "official" published season totals.

And what makes it worse, they don't want to acknowledge this, and aren't interested in the league's early statistical history.
John Grasso
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:54 am
Location: Guilford, NY

Postby petroslav » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:22 pm

Moses Malone's streak of 51 consecutive double-doubles is the longest overall streak (50 games in 1978-79 and the opening game of the 1979-80 season) since the merger (1976-77).
Love is tied with Malone for the longest streak (50) within a single season since the merger.
Over the last 40 seasons (since 1971-72) only Elvin Hayes (55 in 1973-74) and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (51 in 1972-73) had longer streaks in a single season than Malone and Love.

I believe Chamberlain holds the all-time record for consecutive double-doubles with 227 from Dec. 11, 1964 to Nov. 17, 1967. The only question is whether Wilt grabbed double digit rebounds in every game during this time frame? He scored in double figures in 219 consecutive games (Dec. 11, 1964 - Nov. 1, 1967), then didn't attempt a field goal on Nov. 4, 1967 and scored only 1 point, but dished out 13 assists and grabbed at least 15 rebounds. He then proceeded to score in double figures in the next seven games before being held to 8 points (by Bill Russell) on Nov. 18, 1967. Wilt had 33 rebounds but dished out only 6 assists.

Longest streaks by a rookie:

Walt Bellamy, 79 games, Oct. 19, 1961 - Mar. 14, 1962
Elvin Hayes, 60, Oct. 30, 1968 - Feb. 22, 1969
Wilt Chamberlain, 56, Oct. 24, 1959 - Feb. 9, 1960
Blake Griffin, 27, Nov. 20, 2010 - Jan. 17, 2011
petroslav
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:14 pm

Postby Robert Bradley » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:12 am

i'd be curious to see what Elgin Baylor did during the 1960-61 season (34.8 points, 19.8 rebounds).
Author of THE BASKETBALL DRAFT FACT BOOK: A HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL'S COLLEGE DRAFTS
Available at https://Rowman.com

Robert Bradley's Pro Basketball History Revisited Blog
http://apbrbasketball.blogspot.com/
Robert Bradley
Emeritus
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Robert Bradley » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:14 am

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... ar-numbers

"John Wooden never spent a minute in the pros"

well, no he didn't, except for the seasons he played professionally in the 1930s. would it really have been that hard to check something like that? even wikipedia mentions it.
Author of THE BASKETBALL DRAFT FACT BOOK: A HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL'S COLLEGE DRAFTS
Available at https://Rowman.com

Robert Bradley's Pro Basketball History Revisited Blog
http://apbrbasketball.blogspot.com/
Robert Bradley
Emeritus
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby John Grasso » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:53 am

Robert Bradley wrote:i'd be curious to see what Elgin Baylor did during the 1960-61 season (34.8 points, 19.8 rebounds).


Baylor played in 73 of the Lakers' 79 games. He scored 20 or more
in all but 3 games. He had 19 on 11/26, 14 on 12/12 and 14 on 2/2.
He had 40 or more in 21 games with an NBA record 71 on 11/15 and games of 51, 52, 56 and 57.

Another piece of Baylor trivia from the Lakers' 61-62 press guide:

"During the 1960-61 season, Baylor managed to lead both teams in a game in the 'Hat Trick', that is, leading the entire game in scoring, rebounds and assists. Baylor accomplished this six times during the season. Only one other player, Oscar Robertson, managed the feat at all, and Oscar did it three times."

Baylor also led the Lakers in assists during 29 games that season despite having both West and Selvy as teammates. In 15 of those games, Baylor led both teams in assists.
John Grasso
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:54 am
Location: Guilford, NY

Postby petroslav » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:46 am

Love's mastery of the double-double could be troublesome for 76ers

I just found this article. Elias confirms that Chamberlain's streak of 227 consecutive double-doubles is an all-time high.
petroslav
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:14 pm

Postby mtamada » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:22 am

I would've thought that the 76ers' office, though they might not have known the all-time figure, could've given Wilt's figure in an instant -- surely Harvey Pollack would've had that figure for years?
mtamada
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:17 am

Postby gorba77 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:25 pm

Another story from Timberwolves game notes:

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Love becomes the ninth player
in league history to compile a streak of 50+, joining Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Elgin Baylor, Walt Bellamy, Wilt Chamberlain, Elvin Hayes,
Jerry Lucas, Moses Malone and Bill Russell.
gorba77
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:34 am

Postby John Grasso » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:48 pm

gorba77 wrote:
According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Love becomes the ninth player
in league history to compile a streak of 50+, joining Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Elgin Baylor, Walt Bellamy, Wilt Chamberlain, Elvin Hayes,
Jerry Lucas, Moses Malone and Bill Russell.


Another example of Big Julie throwing the dice in his hat.
Why can't Elias (or the NBA) publish some of these details instead of coming out with statements that can't be checked anywhere.
John Grasso
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:54 am
Location: Guilford, NY

Postby Robert Bradley » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:36 pm

From Elias:

"Kevin Love registered his 52nd consecutive double-double with 16 points and 21 rebounds at the expense of the Pacers. Despite what you may have heard or read elsewhere, that's not an NBA record. It's not even close. Wilt Chamberlain had separate streaks of 227, 220 and 133 consecutive games with double-doubles; those are the three longest streaks in NBA history. The last player with a streak as long as Love's was Elvin Hayes, who had double-doubles in 55 straight games for the Capital Bullets in 1973-74."

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3449/kevin-love
Author of THE BASKETBALL DRAFT FACT BOOK: A HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL'S COLLEGE DRAFTS
Available at https://Rowman.com

Robert Bradley's Pro Basketball History Revisited Blog
http://apbrbasketball.blogspot.com/
Robert Bradley
Emeritus
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Robert Bradley » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:47 pm

from the Timberwolves game notes for last night -

Kevin Love extended his franchise-record run of double-doubles to 51 vs. Dallas on Monday, the longest streak in the NBA since Moses Malone ran off 51 for Houston in 1978-79. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Love is the ninth player in league history to compile a streak of 50+, joining Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Elgin Baylor, Walt Bellamy, Wilt Chamberlain, Elvin Hayes, Jerry Lucas, Moses Malone and Bill Russell:

Most Consecutive Double-Doubles -- Since NBA/ABA Merger
51 Kevin Love, Minnesota ............. Nov. 22, 2010-Mar. 7, 2011 (current)
51 Moses Malone, Houston .............. Dec. 29, 1978-Oct. 19, 1979
44 Moses Malone, Philadelphia ....... Nov. 27, 1982-Mar. 4, 1983
37 Kevin Garnett, Minnesota ............ Feb. 1-Nov. 6, 2006
37 John Stockton, Utah .................... Feb. 27, 1989-Nov. 29, 1989
Author of THE BASKETBALL DRAFT FACT BOOK: A HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL'S COLLEGE DRAFTS
Available at https://Rowman.com

Robert Bradley's Pro Basketball History Revisited Blog
http://apbrbasketball.blogspot.com/
Robert Bradley
Emeritus
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby petroslav » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:45 am

Robert Bradley wrote:Most Consecutive Double-Doubles -- Since NBA/ABA Merger
51 Kevin Love, Minnesota ............. Nov. 22, 2010-Mar. 7, 2011 (current)
51 Moses Malone, Houston .............. Dec. 29, 1978-Oct. 19, 1979
44 Moses Malone, Philadelphia ....... Nov. 27, 1982-Mar. 4, 1983
37 Kevin Garnett, Minnesota ............ Feb. 1-Nov. 6, 2006
37 John Stockton, Utah .................... Feb. 27, 1989-Nov. 29, 1989


There was no Rockets game scheduled for Oct. 19. The correct date is Oct. 12, 1979.
petroslav
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:14 pm

Postby D.Highmore » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:37 pm

D.Highmore
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Postby mtamada » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:07 pm

Yes, the article makes good points. The author correctly acknowledges the legitimacy of some eras, i.e. pre-1900 in baseball, and pre-shotclock in the NBA.

But although he joked about the era before blocked shots and assists were recorded (though assists were recorded well before 1973), those statistical eras really are necessary. Because we simply cannot talk about NBA records for blocks, steals, offensive rebounds, and turnovers prior to 1973. If we're smart, we acknowledge the likelihood that the true record-holder is out there, but is simply unknown. I.e. Elmore Smith still has the official record for blocked shots in a game, but Wilt and Russell (and who knows, perhaps others) undoubtedly blocked more than Smith did. So there's the official statistical record, and the pre-statistics era record with an unknown number of blocks by Wilt or Russ or whoever.
mtamada
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:17 am

Next

Return to The Current NBA Season

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron