Gotta love these curios

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Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:43 pm

As reported by Tommy Beer, Fantasy Sports Editor at Hoopsworld.com:

* Clippers point guard Chris Paul was the only player in the NBA last season to average over 19.0 points, over nine assists and 2.5 steals; and is one of only two players in NBA history to complete a season with averages of 19+ ppg, 9+ apg and 2.5+ spg. (Tim Hardaway was the other, in 1990-1991).

* There were only two players in the league last year to average over 7 rebounds and 1.5 steals = Paul Millsap and LeBron James.

* Andre Bynum became just the fifth Laker in franchise history (joining Wilt Chamberlain, Elgin Baylor, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and George Mikan) to record 30+ rebounds in a single game on 4/30, then, L.A.’s next game, scored 30 points in a 103-97 Lakers victory over the Denver Nuggets at STAPLES Center. In doing so, Bynum became the first NBA player with 30 rebounds in one game and 30 points in the next since Moses Malone had 32 rebounds on February 11, 1982 and then scored 32 points in his next game, two days later.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby mtamada » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:15 pm

rlee wrote:As reported by Tommy Beer, Fantasy Sports Editor at Hoopsworld.com:

* Clippers point guard Chris Paul was the only player in the NBA last season to average over 19.0 points, over nine assists and 2.5 steals; and is one of only two players in NBA history to complete a season with averages of 19+ ppg, 9+ apg and 2.5+ spg. (Tim Hardaway was the other, in 1990-1991).


Surprising but it seems to be true. Isiah Thomas falls just short with 2.488 apg in 1983-84 (along with 21.3 ppg and 11.1 apg). Magic Johnson and Gary Payton fall just a little bit short; Kevin Johnson and John Stockton a bit more so (not enough steals by KJ, and Stockton's highest ppg was 17.2).
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:12 am

Magic and Payton both averaged well over 2.5 steals in a season, but not while they were at the top of their game in scoring and passing.

Of 100 or so player-seasons with 2.5 steals per game (since 1977 in the NBA), the median points per game is 17.1, and median assists are 6.2 .
Just 25 player-seasons meet all 3 of those standards (NBA and ABA) .
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:58 am

For the parlor game lovers among us, who is the only player in NBA history with career averages over 15 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks and 1 steal? (Of course, this is tainted by the fact that it can't be a player who played before some of these stats were officially recorded). But, still, for sheer oddball creativity, you have to love it.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:50 am

Guesses:
- Duncan -- has averaged 0.7 steal per game
- Olajuwon -- only 2.5 assists
- D Robinson -- ditto
- Kareem -- very close, with 0.9 steals after 1974
- Webber -- only 1.4 blocks
- Hayes -- just 1.8 assists

OK, I got it: The facts may be somewhat "tainted" by the fact his career isn't nearly finished. There may be quite a few players who have had all these averages at some stage in their careers.
Another hint: He's never made an all-star team.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Robert Bradley » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:14 pm

Mike Goodman wrote:OK, I got it: The facts may be somewhat "tainted" by the fact his career isn't nearly finished. There may be quite a few players who have had all these averages at some stage in their careers.
Another hint: He's never made an all-star team.


your hint gave it away mike.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:30 pm

Well, there are just 4 other players, NBA and ABA, who have averaged 15-7-3-1-2 through age 27: Kareem, Lanier, Walton, and McAdoo.
http://bkref.com/tiny/45gQd
Mac was actually at just 1.96 blocks/game, but this doesn't include his rookie season.

David Robinson is qualified from age 28 thru 34; Kareem makes the cut thru age 40.
Both Walton and Lanier drop off the short list by age 31.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:57 pm

... just 4 other players, NBA and ABA, who have averaged 15-7-3-1-2 through age 27: Kareem, Lanier, Walton, and McAdoo.

Does anyone have a theory why these were all in the '70s ?
All date from the beginning of the NBA tracking steals and blocks (1973-74). Were they granted more liberally then?
Assists don't seem to have been more liberally given in that era. But centers, specifically, were getting more in the '70s than at any time before or since. There weren't many great point guards between Oscar/West/Wilkins and Magic.
And 2 blocks/game is a pretty stringent qualifier.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:35 pm

This "too much time on their hands" gem appeared at the end of February:

"Batum is the sole player in the league this season to rack up 10 points, nine dimes, five swipes, and three blocks in a game, which he has now accomplished twice."

I was going to say that I wonder if anyone has duplicated this feat since then but that wouldn't be true.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:48 am

Just when you think....ESPN's Mark Stein came up with this one:

"Manu Ginobili is averaging 12.3 points, 3.7 rebounds and 4.3 assists in 23.3 minutes per game. The only player in NBA history to hit those levels in the same season while averaging fewer than 24 minutes is Ginobili, last season." OMG!
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:56 pm

Amar'e Stoudemire (NY), in 23.5 mpg, is averaging 14.2 Pts, 5.0 Reb, and 0.7 Blk, while shooting .577 FG%.
No one has done that much of each before, in under 24 minutes per game.
(Eliminate the FG% requirement, and you also have McAdoo in his first Laker season, and Sabonis in his first NBA year.)

Rookie Andre Drummond (Det), in 19.7 mpg, averages 7.2 Pts, 7.5 Reb, and 1.7 blocks.
Nobody has had those averages for a season while playing less than 20 mpg. In fact, no one has done it in < 23 mpg.

Andray Blatche (Brk) is the only player to average 10 Pts, 5 Reb, and 1 Steal while going less than 19 mpg.

Javale McGee (Den) is the only player in NBA history to average 9 Pts, 4 Reb, and 2 Blk in <19 mpg.

Brandan Wright (Dal) and Rasheed Wallace (NY) are 2 of only 3 players ever to average at least 7 Pts, 3 Reb, and 0.8 blocks, in under 15 mpg. Rookie Roy Hibbert is the other.

Apparently everyone in this list is "unique":
http://bkref.com/tiny/v6obL
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:15 pm

As feared, there is no end to this nonsense.

Thanks Mike for doing the work to illuminate just how silly this can be.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:47 pm

Rasheed and Amar'e both play for the Knicks, and they play essentially the same position.
Sheed has appeared in 20 games and Amar'e in 29. If they should combine their minutes and their production (and actually play in the same game), they'd total 21 Pts, 9 Reb, and 1.5 Blk, in 38 minutes.

Since 1974, these averages have been reached 64 times, by players going less than 39 mpg.
Shaq did it 10 times, Ewing and Olajuwon 9 each.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:19 pm

Only two players have zero points & six fouls in fewer than ten minutes in a game this season. (I am not making this up).
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:46 pm

There is apparently no end to these wacky lists:

From Andrew Perna at realGm:

"There are only a few NBA players averaging at least 10 points, seven rebounds and one block per game while also shooting 55% from the field this season. LeBron James, Al Horford and Serge Ibaka.

Oh, one more. Amir Johnson."
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:57 am

Just 3 players in the league are getting over 28 minutes per game but with less than 10.5 Pts and 1.6 Ast per game:
Omer Asik, Kyle Singler, and Amir Johnson.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:08 am

So Amir is either the equivalent of LBJ or Singler. Gotta love those wacky lists for what they "prove".
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:57 am

The idea is probably not to prove any equivalence, but to make people wonder why someone like Amir Johnson enjoys such select company in some statistical combination. Put another way: Why doesn't he play more minutes and command more attention?

It gets him into the conversation, and on further investigation we find that his 56% shooting isn't worth much when it applies to just 7 or 8 shots per game. It's about 1 PPG better than a 49% shooter who takes so few shots.
He averages almost as many fouls (3.8) as FG (4.2) in a game. Most players who shoot as rarely are 3-point specialists.

Amir is loved by many in the stat world because of his "efficiency". He doesn't miss many shots, and he doesn't turn the ball over much. By seldom shooting or passing, his teammates get to do these things, for better or for worse. I've never believed in assigning one player the whole responsibility for a failed possession: If your teammate can't get open for a shot, you've got to take it. Most offenses can handle one such player, but not more than one.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:48 pm

"The idea is probably not to prove any equivalence, but to make people wonder why someone like Amir Johnson enjoys such select company in some statistical combination. Put another way: Why doesn't he play more minutes and command more attention?"

That may be your idea, Mike; in which case - more power to you. But I have to say that I have never seen anyone else who posits such exclusivity lists do a similar comparison - they just come up with one in isolation to show a player's "value" by virtue of being in the "select company" of others who have produced similar gamed numbers.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 pm

I don't try to imagine a person's motivation for making a comparison. I just look at whether it seems to be meaningful or trivial.
In the Amir-Lebron case, Amir's FG% is a fairly trivial component that makes the whole comparison rather trivial.

If I announce that the only players with 17,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, and 3200 assists in NBA regular seasons are: Wilt, Kareem, Karl Malone, Garnett, Duncan, Barkley, Baylor, and Jack Sikma -- it doesn't claim that any of these guys are equivalent to any other.
Sikma kind of stands out because he's the only one who isn't hands-down Hall of Fame level.

My message may be something along the lines of: If these guys are all 1st-ballot HOF'ers, then Sikma might actually be considered as a candidate at least. Sikma did all this in 14 seasons; he had some pretty good playoffs, as well. All-Star 7 times.

Now, I'd say none of the criteria I listed -- career Pts, Reb, Ast -- is very trivial. It only takes one to trivialize the whole shebang. For example, Sikma is the only one with career 3pt% over .300 -- but so what? Points are points.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:10 pm

Mike, I apologize for not stating the point more clearly. It was not based on "mind-reading" but rather that virtually every time someone posts an "exclusivity list" based on unusual combo of stat factors, they clearly articulate that their point is to show how good a player someone is by virtue of the company they keep. (Obviously, when I don't re-post their post in its entirety, the statement re: the player's worth is exlcluded). Having seen hundreds of these, I have never seen anyone but you compare two lists of stats that show how the factors can be manipulated to show both positive and negatives of a player's contribution. That is why I said "more power to you" - I felt you had exposed a silliness aspect of the endeavor in certain circumstances.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:18 am

"Earlier this season Marion joined Hakeem Olajuwon, Karl Malone and Kevin Garnett as the only players in NBA history to score at least 16,000 points, grab at least 9,000 rebounds, pick up at least 1,500 steals and block at least 1,000 shots."

The great thing about these lists is that you can come up with combos that will result in whatever # of players you desire & you can conjoin whichever players you want & you can assign whatever significance you want to the product.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby meej » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:05 am

I fear it's worse over here: in Spain, any of these contrived lists that manages to place a Spanish player next to an established star gets a lot of publicity. I can't tell you how many "records" and "milestones" I had never heard of until a Spanish player reached it.
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby rlee » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:13 pm

This form of "exclusivity list" seems equally silly:

"Bryant became the first player in NBA history to record 47 points, eight rebounds, five assists, four blocks and three steals in a game. "
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Re: Gotta love these curios

Postby Robert Bradley » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:05 pm

rlee wrote:This form of "exclusivity list" seems equally silly:

"Bryant became the first player in NBA history to record 47 points, eight rebounds, five assists, four blocks and three steals in a game. "


because we all know Wilt never did it!
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