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ABA box scores

Postby Mike Hamel » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:06 pm

Over the last several months I've been slowly posting ABA box scores and game logs online. The primary source is The Sporting News, which published box scores from 1968-69 through 1975-76, but in some cases I have used other newspapers, via Google News, to fix problems found during proofing (but many inconsistencies still exist). The games from 1969-70 through 1975-76 are online now.

http://michaelhamel.net/boxtop-aba

So far I've been unable to locate box scores for 3 games, but the archive is otherwise complete.

10/18/1969 Dallas at Carolina
02/03/1970 Denver vs. Washington (at Albuquerque)
02/13/1971 Utah at Texas
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Goodman » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:37 am

Hey Mike, this is quite a monumental piece of work. My first thought was that basketball-reference.com should know about it. I see that you have player pages linked to their counterpart at b-r.com already.

To see how you've got the game logs arranged, I looked at a random player, George Stone. His 1970-71 RS Splits show he was in 92 games. That's not only a record, but his b-r.com page says he played 78 games in the RS, plus 18 in the PO.
His 92 G is consistent with 47 at home + 43 road + 2 neutral. The team is shown to have gone 61-31 (they were 57-27).

His other totals are inflated by 155 FG, 58 FT, 13 3FG, and 381 points.
That means in his 14 'mystery' games, he averaged 27.2 points -- raising his avg from 11.7 ppg to 14.1

Scanning the game log, I count just 39 Home games.
Checking Zelmo Beaty that season, his totals and splits show the correct 76 games played.
Willie Wise shows 93 games ...
`
36% of all statistics are wrong
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Hamel » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:01 am

Thanks for letting me know about those mistakes in the splits... I'll take a look and figure out the problem. I think my scripts are adding his playoff totals for 1969-70 (17 games) + his regular season totals for 1970-71 (75 games) and printing the overall totals as the splits for the 1970-71 regular season (92 games). (The same pattern repeats for the 1971-72 regular season.)
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Goodman » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:15 pm

I think the totals still don't add up, but good luck. I don't know nuthin' bout writin' no scripts.
`
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Hamel » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:14 pm

I have posted new game log files that fix the splits.

The splits reflect the totals from the box scores, NOT the official ABA statistics. There are definitely inconsistencies between the box score totals and the official totals (see http://michaelhamel.net/boxtop/aba/aba1971statistics.htm for an example - the inconsistencies are in red).

This is also true for the NBA box scores posted on Basketball-Reference.com or NBA.com, at least during the 1960's, which I have looked at fairly extensively. The totals in their box scores and their game logs do not add up to the official totals in all cases.
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:08 pm

Excellent work, Mike.
Earlier I noticed George McGinnis had 102 games one year. Fixed!
Looking at his fab 1975 playoffs, when he averaged (according to b-r.com) 32.3 pts, 15.9 reb, 8.2 ast -- I see your boxscores and b-r.com agree he scored 581 points in 18 games.
B-R says he made 213 FG, of which 23 were 3-pointers.
You say he had 214 FG, with 21 treys. Individual boxscores support your total.

In his other 54 playoff games with 3-point shots -- none in the NBA from '76 to '80 -- he totaled just 6. Definitely on a tear in '75.

It's nice to see the subtotals by playoff series. In this case, McGinnis vs Den, Ky, SA. Any chance you can order these chronologically?
You have PF, Reb, TO, Stl, Blk for the Finals vs Ky. Why not total them?
`
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Goodman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:35 pm

I have always wondered something about Levern Tart. In 4 ABA seasons, he changed teams 6 times. One year (1970) he was with the Nets for the whole season.
In '71, he was traded midseason (again) to Texas. In 4 playoff games, he averaged 8.25 assists, in just 25 minutes per game.
And then he retired, age 28.

[Your playoff totals for Tart in '71 include a tiebreaker game against Denver. B-R.com ignores this game.
]
Averaging 11.8 Ast per 36 minutes is very unusual for a guy who for his career got just 3.2 Ast/36. Is it possible there is a clerical error somewhere?
Attempting 31 FGA per 36 is unusual, especially when hitting only 37% of them.

http://bkref.com/tiny/Ruinm
It's freakish. Did someone cook the books?
`
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby TodMaher » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:33 pm

Mike Hamel wrote:Over the last several months I've been slowly posting ABA box scores and game logs online. The primary source is The Sporting News, which published box scores from 1968-69 through 1975-76, but in some cases I have used other newspapers, via Google News, to fix problems found during proofing (but many inconsistencies still exist). The games from 1969-70 through 1975-76 are online now.

http://michaelhamel.net/boxtop-aba

So far I've been unable to locate box scores for 3 games, but the archive is otherwise complete.

10/18/1969 Dallas at Carolina

Dallas G 3P FT-A PTS
Boone 6 0 4-8 16
Combs 3 1 2-3 11
Leaks 6 0 3-3 15
Bdil 3 0 2-3 8
J.Bsly 10 0 507 25
Lchmn 1 0 1-3 3
C.Bsly 5 1 2-2 15
Scott 0 0 0-0 0
Smith 2 0 0-0 4
Totals 36 2 19-29 97

Carolina G 3P FT-A PTS
Verga 14 0 6-8 34
Lttls 4 0 2-4 10
Bntg 5 0 1-3 11
Moe 14 9 9-10 37
Whtny 4 0 0-0 8
Perry 1 0 1-2 3
Mhffy 1 0 0-0 2
Poles 0 0 1-1 1
Sutor 1 0 0-0 2
Totals 44 0 20-28 108

Dallas 28 29 26 14 - 97
Carolina 29 27 29 23 - 108
Team Fouls: Dallas 20, Carolina 25
Rebounds: Dallas 52, Carolina 56

Source: Dallas Morning News
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby petroslav » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:46 pm

TodMaher wrote:
Mike Hamel wrote:Over the last several months I've been slowly posting ABA box scores and game logs online. The primary source is The Sporting News, which published box scores from 1968-69 through 1975-76, but in some cases I have used other newspapers, via Google News, to fix problems found during proofing (but many inconsistencies still exist). The games from 1969-70 through 1975-76 are online now.

http://michaelhamel.net/boxtop-aba

So far I've been unable to locate box scores for 3 games, but the archive is otherwise complete.

10/18/1969 Dallas at Carolina

Dallas G 3P FT-A PTS
Boone 6 0 4-8 16
Combs 3 1 2-3 11
Leaks 6 0 3-3 15
Bdil 3 0 2-3 8
J.Bsly 10 0 507 25
Lchmn 1 0 1-3 3
C.Bsly 5 1 2-2 15
Scott 0 0 0-0 0
Smith 2 0 0-0 4
Totals 36 2 19-29 97

Carolina G 3P FT-A PTS
Verga 14 0 6-8 34
Lttls 4 0 2-4 10
Bntg 5 0 1-3 11
Moe 14 9 9-10 37
Whtny 4 0 0-0 8
Perry 1 0 1-2 3
Mhffy 1 0 0-0 2
Poles 0 0 1-1 1
Sutor 1 0 0-0 2
Totals 44 0 20-28 108

Dallas 28 29 26 14 - 97
Carolina 29 27 29 23 - 108
Team Fouls: Dallas 20, Carolina 25
Rebounds: Dallas 52, Carolina 56

Source: Dallas Morning News

Tod,

I see you took this info from the Dallas Morning News. I have a small request if you have access to this paper (or Dallas Times Herald or Forth Worth Star-Telegram). Could you look who was the starting center for the Mavericks on 2/15/84 vs. 76ers and 11/17/84 vs. Pistons?
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby MCT » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:00 pm

basketball-reference.com has hard copy box scores for both of the '80s Mavericks games that petroslav asked about, presumably from Dick Pfander's collection. They do not explicitly identify the starters, but appear to list the players in "starters first" F-F-C-G-G order. Based on that, Pat Cummings appears to have been the starting center on 2/15/84, and Kurt Nimphius on 11/17/84.
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Hamel » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:18 am

Thanks Tod! I'll add the 10/18/1969 Dallas at Carolina game when I post the next set of games.
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby John Grasso » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:20 am

Here's the Denver-Washington game

Denver 125, Washington 142
2/3/70 at Albuquerque, NM


Denver (125)
G F P
Hammond 10 3-5 23
Piatkowski 1 0-0 3
Wittman 2 2-2 6
Beck 11 1-1 23
Haywood 5 6-8 16
Keye 8 1-2 17
Congdon 2 1-1 5
Jones 12 8-10 32
_____________
Total 51 22-29 125

Washington (142)
G F P
Barry 14 5-6 33
Card 5 1-1 11
Carter 8 0-1 16
Harge 9 0-2 18
Eakins 5 3-3 13
Taylor 8 0-0 16
Brown 7 5-5 19
Logan 1 2-2 4
Barrett 4 3-7 12
______________
Totals 61 19-27 142

Denver 33 23 36 33 125
Washington 31 35 38 38 142

Three-point goals – Piatkowski, Barrett
Attendance – 5,611
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby TodMaher » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:38 am

Here's the 2/13/1971 Utah at Texas game:

Texas FG-A FT-A Reb PF Pts
Bedell 4-9 2-2 2 2 10
Hightower 5-14 6-6 17 3 14
Moore 9-13 2-4 18 3 20
Freeman 9-22 5-8 12 4 23
Hamilton 6-11 0-0 1 6 13
J. Beasley 4-6 1-1 4 2 9
Jones 4-7 2-4 5 3 10
Tart 0-1 0-0 1 1 0
C. Beasley 2-6 4-4 0 1 8
Totals 43-93 22-31 62 25 114

Utah FG-A FT-A Reb PF Pts
Stone 8-12 0-0 2 0 19
Wise 3-12 0-0 9 6 6
Robbins 4-11 4-5 16 3 12
Combs 12-26 10-14 4 4 37
Jackson 9-19 6-9 9 4 24
Boone 8-16 3-4 6 5 14
Butler 1-2 0-0 1 1 2
Totals 46-99 22-32 46 24 121
Three-point shooting: Hamilton 2-4; Stone, 2-4; Combs 1-2.
Utah 32 26 32 32 - 121
Texas 31 24 29 24 - 114
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Hamel » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:26 pm

This is terrific folks! Thanks again for the help.
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby petroslav » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:13 am

TodMaher wrote:Here's the 2/13/1971 Utah at Texas game:

Texas FG-A FT-A Reb PF Pts
Bedell 4-9 2-2 2 2 10
Hightower 5-14 6-6 17 3 14
Moore 9-13 2-4 18 3 20
Freeman 9-22 5-8 12 4 23
Hamilton 6-11 0-0 1 6 13
J. Beasley 4-6 1-1 4 2 9
Jones 4-7 2-4 5 3 10
Tart 0-1 0-0 1 1 0
C. Beasley 2-6 4-4 0 1 8
Totals 43-93 22-31 62 25 114

Utah FG-A FT-A Reb PF Pts
Stone 8-12 0-0 2 0 19
Wise 3-12 0-0 9 6 6
Robbins 4-11 4-5 16 3 12
Combs 12-26 10-14 4 4 37
Jackson 9-19 6-9 9 4 24
Boone 8-16 3-4 6 5 14
Butler 1-2 0-0 1 1 2
Totals 46-99 22-32 46 24 121
Three-point shooting: Hamilton 2-4; Stone, 2-4; Combs 1-2.
Utah 32 26 32 32 - 121
Texas 31 24 29 24 - 114

A few players are missing from this box score, thus there are discrepancies with team totals. Here's another version of the box score without discrepancies.

Note: FG=2-point field goals (3-point field goals are counted separately)

60.jpg
source: Deseret News
60.jpg (108.12 KiB) Viewed 20011 times


John Grasso wrote:Here's the Denver-Washington game

Denver 125, Washington 142
2/3/70 at Albuquerque, NM


Denver (125)
G F P
Hammond 10 3-5 23
Piatkowski 1 0-0 3
Wittman 2 2-2 6
Beck 11 1-1 23
Haywood 5 6-8 16
Keye 8 1-2 17
Congdon 2 1-1 5
Jones 12 8-10 32
_____________
Total 51 22-29 125

Washington (142)
G F P
Barry 14 5-6 33
Card 5 1-1 11
Carter 8 0-1 16
Harge 9 0-2 18
Eakins 5 3-3 13
Taylor 8 0-0 16
Brown 7 5-5 19
Logan 1 2-2 4
Barrett 4 3-7 12
______________
Totals 61 19-27 142

Denver 33 23 36 33 125
Washington 31 35 38 38 142

Three-point goals – Piatkowski, Barrett
Attendance – 5,611

Box score of the same game with a few extras (rebounds, 2-point field goal attempts and PF)
49.JPG
source: Washington Post
49.JPG (45.63 KiB) Viewed 20011 times

MCT wrote:basketball-reference.com has hard copy box scores for both of the '80s Mavericks games that petroslav asked about, presumably from Dick Pfander's collection. They do not explicitly identify the starters, but appear to list the players in "starters first" F-F-C-G-G order. Based on that, Pat Cummings appears to have been the starting center on 2/15/84, and Kurt Nimphius on 11/17/84.

That was the first place where I looked, but I just wanted confirmation if someone could look in the Dallas Morning News, Dallas Times Herald or Forth Worth Star-Telegram.

I am trying to compile a list of all instances in NBA history in which a center had 10+ assists and sometimes it's hard to differentiate between power forwards and centers.
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Hamel » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:34 am

I am attempting to complete the ABA box score collection by finishing the 1967-68 season. Since The Sporting News did not publish box scores for ABA games that season, I have had to rely on newspapers for the box scores (New York Times, Miami News, Pittsburgh Press, and Pittsburgh Post-Gazette so far).

The good news is that I have found 95% of the box scores and can start the process of converting them for use online.

The bad news is that I still have 23 games missing. Most are Saturday games (Sunday newspaper coverage of out-of-town sports could be skimpy during this time). If anyone has ideas for other sources to pursue, or has access to some of these box scores, I would appreciate it.


Sat Oct 14 1967 Kentucky Colonels 95 Indiana Pacers 117
Sat Oct 28 1967 New Orleans Buccaneers 104 Houston Mavericks 94

Sat Nov 11 1967 Dallas Chaparrals 103 Indiana Pacers 126
Sat Nov 11 1967 Denver Rockets 107 New Orleans Buccaneers 131

Sat Dec 9 1967 Anaheim Amigos 96 Denver Rockets 116
Sat Dec 16 1967 New Orleans Buccaneers 100 Anaheim Amigos 107
Sat Dec 23 1967 Minnesota Muskies 104 Indiana Pacers 101
Sat Dec 23 1967 Kentucky Colonels 104 New Orleans Buccaneers 106
Sat Dec 23 1967 Anaheim Amigos 126 Oakland Oaks 103
Sat Dec 30 1967 Houston Mavericks 80 Denver Rockets 96
Sat Dec 30 1967 New Jersey Americans 123 Oakland Oaks 117

Sat Jan 6 1968 Dallas Chaparrals 108 Kentucky Colonels 96
Thu Jan 11 1968 Anaheim Amigos 124 New Orleans Buccaneers 131

Sat Feb 3 1968 Houston Mavericks 111 Oakland Oaks 119
Sat Feb 10 1968 Pittsburgh Pipers 120 Anaheim Amigos 112
Sat Feb 10 1968 Minnesota Muskies 100 New Orleans Buccaneers 126
Sat Feb 17 1968 Anaheim Amigos 100 Dallas Chaparrals 107
Sat Feb 17 1968 Kentucky Colonels 106 Denver Rockets 116
Sat Feb 17 1968 Houston Mavericks 99 Indiana Pacers 115
Sat Feb 17 1968 New Orleans Buccaneers 121 Pittsburgh Pipers 129
Sat Feb 24 1968 New Jersey Americans 108 Denver Rockets 110

Sun Mar 24 1968 Oakland Oaks 135 Anaheim Amigos 147

Sat Apr 6 1968 Minnesota Muskies 137 Pittsburgh Pipers 123
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby petroslav » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:30 pm

You can complete it by using ABA game logs data from nbastats.net.

http://nbastats.net/01NbaAbaNblAbl/05-G ... gsABA.xlsx
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Re: ABA box scores

Postby Mike Hamel » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:53 pm

Full set of box scores now online at: http://michaelhamel.net/boxtop-aba/
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