Players who were drafted more than once

Moderator: Matthew Maurer

Postby MCT » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:46 pm

MCT wrote:Sam McCants, Oral Roberts – Bulls 8th round 1974, Suns 4th round 1975. McCants is another one of those convoluted cases. Per The Draft Review, he was enrolled at various times at both Florida State and Oral Roberts, but played only one year of college basketball, which was 1973-74 at Oral Roberts. McCants’ first year of college, at Florida State, is shown as 1971-72. But he would have had to graduate from high school in 1970 in order to be draft eligible in 1974.

Some additional detail on McCants' chronology:

--Newspaper articles in the Google News archive indicate that McCants was a senior in high school at Pensacola (Fla.) Catholic High in the 1970-71 school year. Based on this, it appears that he would not have been eligible for the NBA Draft until 1975.

--Out of high school, McCants apparently committed to Florida State. It’s not clear to me whether he actually attended school or played basketball there (if he did play, it presumably wouldn’t have been varsity, because the freshman prohibition was still in place at this point). The Draft Review has McCants at Florida State in 1971-72, but says “Did Not Play Left School”.

--By the summer of 1972, McCants had left Florida State and was now at Oral Roberts. An article about Oral Roberts’ program in the August 1, 1972 edition of the Miami News indicates that the school was “working with the NCAA” on the matter of McCants’ eligibility. The article leaves me with the impression that the eligibility concerns were around academics, not necessarily merely about his status as a transfer. The Draft Review has McCants at Oral Roberts in 1972-73, but says “Did Not Play Ineligible”.

--McCants played for Oral Roberts in 1973-74, averaging 24.0 ppg. ORU went all the way to the Elite Eight in the NCAA tournament before losing to Kansas in overtime (a victory in that game would have put them in the Final Four). He was drafted by the Bulls on the 8th round of the 1974 NBA Draft. McCants was also selected by the Utah Stars on the 4th round of the 1974 ABA Draft. I have seen some suggestion that McCants was with the ABA Spirits of St. Louis during the preseason in 1974, but I’m not certain of this.

--McCants does not appear to have played college basketball during the 1974-75 season. (If he did in fact sign a pro contract with the Spirits in 1974, this would have precluded him from playing any further college basketball.) The Draft Review has him listed under Oral Roberts, but says “Did Not Play”. McCants was drafted by the Suns on the 4th round of the 1975 NBA Draft. He was cut by the Suns in the preseason.

If McCants graduated from high school in 1971, I see no obvious reason why he would have been eligible for the NBA Draft in 1974. I have found no evidence that he was an early entry “hardship” candidate. It may be that he was not actually eligible. Perhaps there was some confusion over what year he had graduated from high school, given the scattershot nature of his college career. While he was also drafted by the ABA that year, it’s hard to deduce anything about his status from that. By this time ABA teams were in the practice of drafting pretty much anyone they wanted, with no regard to college eligibility. The Stars selected high school senior Moses Malone in the 3rd round that year, and several of their other 1974 picks were college undergraduates who had not declared for the NBA Draft and who would ultimately remain in school.
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Postby MCT » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:39 pm

Robert Bradley wrote:Ben Warley was drafted in 1960 and 1961. He played for the Cleveland Pipers's AAU club in 1960-61.

Robert is correct on the years. I had them wrong in my original post.

Using The Draft Review and the ABL page on the APBR web site as sources, Warley’s chronology goes like this:

--Warley played three years at Tennessee State from 1956-57 to 1958-59. I don’t think Tennessee State was subject to the prohibition on freshmen playing varsity sports (IINM, they were an NAIA school), so it is my assumption that these were his freshman, sophomore and junior years. I have never seen any indication that Warley played an additional year of college basketball before he got to Tennessee State.

--Warley joined the AAU Cleveland Pipers late in the 1958-59 season (perhaps after Tennessee State’s season had ended), and remained with them for the 1959-60 season. Warley was selected by the Lakers in the 4th round of the 1960 NBA Draft. Being drafted in 1960 is consistent with his having been a freshman in the fall of 1956.

--Warley was back with the Pipers again in 1960-61. He was selected by the Nationals in the 1st round of the 1961 NBA Draft.

--For the 1961-62 season, the Pipers “turned pro”, joining the new ABL. Warley remained with the team.

--Following a failed attempt to jump to the NBA, the Pipers shut down during the 1962 offseason. Warley returned to the ABL for the 1962-63 season, now with the Long Beach Chiefs. The ABL folded halfway through the 1962-63 season. Warley then signed with the Nationals, finally beginning his NBA career.

While I’m not certain of this, various circumstances make me believe that Warley was considered to be a junior eligible at the time of the 1960 draft:

--Historically, if a player was drafted on any basis other than as a junior eligible, the only way he could be eligible to be drafted again in a subsequent year is if he retained his amateur status. It appears that the NBA considered AAU ball to be professional basketball for purposes of draft eligibility, because players who went the AAU route do not seem to have been eligible to be drafted over and over again. I’m not aware of any AAU players who were drafted more than once. Accordingly, if Warley had been drafted on any basis other than as a junior eligible in 1960, I don’t see how he could have been eligible again in a future year. (Note: I am aware that the Olympics considered AAU ball to be amateur, but the lack of repeated draftings of AAU players makes me suspect that the NBA classified it differently, at least for purposes of draft eligibility. The same was true of players on European club teams in the ‘70s and ‘80s; the Olympics considered them amateurs, but the NBA considered them professionals for purposes of draft eligibility.)

--It is my understanding that, prior to 1976, a player had to retain his amateur status for two years in order to be eligible for the draft again. For the reasons explained above, I don’t think the NBA considered Warley to be an amateur in 1961. But even if they had, I don’t think he would have eligible to be drafted two years in a row, unless he was a junior eligible the first year.

--The junior eligible rule applied to players who had been out of high school for four years, but still had college eligibility remaining. In 1960, Warley definitely met the first part of the criteria, since he was in college during the 1956-57 school year. If his three years at Tennesee State were his freshman, sophomore and junior years, he may have still been (at least theoretically) eligible to play one more year of college basketball.

--Warley was drafted in the 4th round in 1960, but in the 1st round in 1961. This disparity is consistent with Warley having been a junior eligible in 1960. Because of the risk in drafting one (you knew you weren’t getting his rights on a permanent basis, but only until the start of the school year in the fall), teams were reluctant to use high draft picks on junior eligibles who hadn’t committed to turning pro right away. It’s possible that Warley’s draft stock just went up between 1960 and 1961, but I suspect that at least part of the reason he was drafted so much lower in 1960 is that he was a junior eligible that year.

A problem with this hypothesis is that there aren't many other players to test it against. We know that if a junior eligible went back to school, he was eligible again the next year. And we know that if a junior eligible signed with the team that held his draft rights, he could then play for that team. It's less clear how things worked if the player did neither of these things, as was the case with Warley. The only player I'm aware of who did something comparable was Billy Paultz, who was drafted by the Rockets as a junior eligible on the 7th round of the 1970 draft. Like Warley, Paultz neither returned to school nor signed with the Rockets. He instead signed with the ABA. Paultz was not drafted again in 1971, which seems to contradict Warley being drafted again in 1961. But I'm not sure if Paultz wasn't drafted again in 1971 because he wasn't eligible, or if he was eligible but no one selected him. The latter is not implausible; prior to 1972, NBA teams generally shunned using valuable draft picks on players who were already under contract to the ABA (Charlie Scott and Artis Gilmore were 7th round picks; Dan Issel and Rick Mount were 8th round picks; Wendell Ladner wasn't drafted at all). Only after a certain critical mass of NBA players had been able to get out of their ABA contracts and jump to the NBA -- Spencer Haywood, Charlie Scott, Jim McDaniels -- did NBA teams begin to see value in holding the NBA rights to ABA players. Against that backdrop, it's not inconceivable that no team found Paultz worth drafting 1971. Another possibility is that the rule changed between 1960 and 1970, or even that there was no clear rule in 1960.

Does anyone know of any source that indicates what year Warley graduated from high school, or what class he was considered to be in during any of his three seasons at Tennessee State?
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Postby rlee » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:20 pm

Haven't been able to confirm Warley's h.s. class, but 2 clues that favor 1955:

-he was all-city in DC in 54-55 but does not appear on the 55-56 team

- he was born in September 1936, so would be almost 20 if he graduated in '56 rather than in '55.
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Postby MCT » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:52 pm

rlee wrote:Dick Garmaker:

1954 - 9th Round - Lakers
1955 - Territorial pick - Lakers

Robert Bradley wrote:Garmaker transferred from Hibbing Junior College to the University of Minnesota, sitting out the 1952-53 season.

I missed Garmaker on my original list, He obviously played in the NBA, so he should have been on it.

The Draft Review has Garmaker at Hibbing in 1951-52 (but with no stats), sitting out 1952-53, then at Minnesota in 1953-54 and 1954-55. Taken literally, this would suggest that Garmaker was a junior eligible in 1955. I think showing Garmaker at Hibbing for only one year may be another "educated guess"/"lack of information" situation, however. The Google News Archive has an article from the 2/16/54 edition of the Milwaukee Journal, reporting on the previous day's Minnesota-Wisconsin game, which states that Garmaker "spent two years at Hibbing (Minn) junior college". Based on that, I'm comfortable with concluding that Garmaker was a junior eligible in 1954.

The earliest I am aware of any players being selected as junior eligibles was 1953, when the Celtics took three players from the University of Kentucky who had sat out the 1952-53 season due to UK suspending its basketball program for a year in the wake of the early '50s college betting scandals (Frank Ramsey, Cliff Hagan and Lou Tsioropolous). At that time, a team that selected a junior eligible appears to have kept his rights permanently, with no opportunity for the player to go back into the draft again. All of the players the Celtics drafted returned to school for the 1953-54 season, but none were ever re-drafted in a subsequent year, and all three eventually began their NBA careers with the Celtics or with a team the Celtics had traded their rights to.

The rule was obviously changed at some point so that a junior eligible who returned to school could be selected again as a senior. Garmaker's draft history suggests that 1953 was the last year that a team held the rights to a junior eligible permanently, and 1954 was the first year a team would only retain a junior eligible's rights until the school year started up again. As such, Garmaker may have been the first player ever to be drafted twice.

1953 may very well have been the first year that the junior eligible rule existed, and thus the only year that the "permanent rights" version of the rule was in effect. In a previous thread it was suggested that Red Auerbach may have lobbied for the rule's passage with the Kentucky players in mind (see http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=923). It looks like, after what Auerbach did in '53, the other owners immediately changed the rule so it would no longer be possible for a team to stockpile the rights to junior eligibles as Boston had done.
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Postby MCT » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:00 pm

rlee wrote:Haven't been able to confirm Warley's h.s. class, but 2 clues that favor 1955:

-he was all-city in DC in 54-55 but does not appear on the 55-56 team

- he was born in September 1936, so would be almost 20 if he graduated in '56 rather than in '55.

Thanks, Ray. That raises the question of what Warley was doing in 1955-56. If he played college basketball somewhere, that would scuttle my theory that he was a junior in the last year he played at Tennessee State, and was therefore a junior eligible the first time he was drafted.
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Postby MCT » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:22 pm

For some reason, I keep trying to push everything about Ben Warley forward a year. Not only was he drafted in 1960 and 1961 -- not 1959 and 1960, as I had originally stated before Robert corrected me -- but the three seasons he played at Tennessee State were 1957-58 to 1959-60 -- not 1956-57 to 1958-59 as I had claimed in previous posts. Warley then joined the AAU Cleveland Pipers late in the 1959-60 season -- not 1958-59. So his chronology should look like this (corrections to what I had previously posted):

--Warley played three years at Tennessee State from 1957-58 to 1959-60. I don’t think Tennessee State was subject to the prohibition on freshmen playing varsity sports (IINM, they were an NAIA school), so it is my assumption that these were his freshman, sophomore and junior years. I have never seen any indication that Warley played an additional year of college basketball before he got to Tennessee State.

--Warley joined the AAU Cleveland Pipers late in the 1959-60 season (perhaps after Tennessee State’s season had ended). Warley was selected by the Lakers in the 4th round of the 1960 NBA Draft.

--Warley was back with the Pipers again in 1960-61. He was selected by the Nationals in the 1st round of the 1961 NBA Draft.

Under my original chronology, it seemed pretty clear that Warley was eligible for the draft in 1960, because four years had elapsed since he started at Tennessee State. Only his precise status (i.e., was he a junior eligible, or a senior?) was really in question. That there was a one-year gap between his last year of college and the year he was drafted lent weight to the idea that he was a junior during his last season of college basketball. Under the revised chronology, neither of these points are true any longer. At the time of the 1960 draft, only three years had elapsed since Warley started at Tennessee State, and he was coming off his third season there. This lightens the evidence that Warley was a junior eligible at the time, and opens the possibility that he wasn't actually eligible for the draft in 1960 at all.

Even with these corrections, the same basic questions about Warley remain open: What year did he graduate from high school? Was Warley was considered to be a freshman, sophomore and junior during the three years he played at Tennessee State, or was he a sophomore, junior and senior (e.g., if he played a year of college basketball somewhere else before he got to Tennessee State)?

If Warley graduated from high school in 1956 or earlier, and was considered to be a junior in 1959-60, then my theory that he was a junior eligible in 1960 is almost certainly correct. If he was considered a senior in 1959-60, or if he graduated from high school in 1957 (which would mean he went directly from high school to Tennessee State, and was only three years out of high school in 1960), my theory is wrong.
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Postby MCT » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:59 am

Robert Bradley wrote:A December 3, 1955 article gives the details of Baylor's transfer to Seattle - he would sit out the 1955-56 season, with three years of eligibility remaining for the regular season and two season of eligibility for post-season tournament play.

Back in the '50s, the NCAA apparently had a rule which forbid players from playing in the NCAA tournament if more than four years had elapsed since they started college, even if the player was otherwise eligible (i.e., he was eligible to play during the regular season). This is why Baylor had three years of regular season eligibility remaining when he transferred to Seattle but only two years of post-season tournament eligibility. Since he had only played one year of college basketball, he would be eligible to play up to three years at Seattle (through 1958-59). Because he had originally started college in 1954, however, he would not be eligible to play in the NCAA tournament at the end of the 1958-59 season.

I don't know when this rule was changed. There are two applications of it that are fairly well-known:

1) During the 1953-54 regular season, Kentucky went undefeated and was regarded by many as the best college team in the country. They turned down an invitation to the NCAA tournament, however, because they had three key players who would not have been allowed to play in the tournament due to this rule (Frank Ramsey, Cliff Hagan and Lou Tsioropolous). All would have been in their fourth year of basketball eligibility in 1952-53, but sat out that season because Kentucky suspended its basketball program for a year in the wake of the early '50s college betting scandals. They were eligible to play as seniors in the 1953-54 regular season, but were not eligible to play in the 1954 NCAA tournament.

2) When the University of San Francisco won its second consecutive NCAA title in 1956, they were unable to use guard K.C. Jones in the tournament due to this rule. Jones had only appeared in one game during the 1953-54 season due to health reasons (he had to have an emergency appendectomy early in the season) and was granted a medical redshirt by the NCAA. The medical redshirt allowed Jones to play in the 1955-56 regular season. Because five years had elapsed since he had originally started college, however, he could not play in that year's NCAA tournament.
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Postby MCT » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:30 am

I think I've found another player who was drafted twice who went on to play in the NBA. Jim Paxson, Sr. was apparently drafted by the Royals on the 11th round in 1954, then by the Lakers on the 1st round in 1956.

I say "I think" and "apparently" because some sources list the player drafted in 1954 as "John Paxson". Dayton's media guide does not show any player by that name at Dayton around that time, however, so I'm assuming it is actually Jim. b-r.com shows it as the same player.

The Draft Review indicates that Paxson played at Dayton in 1951-52 and 1952-53, did not play in 1953-54 and 1954-55, then played again in 1955-56. No explanation is provided for why Paxson sat out the two seasons. Based on this it's not clear if Paxson was actually eligible in 1954. To be eligible that year, he would have had to graduate from high school in 1950. Either way, it would appear that Paxson was a junior eligible in 1955, but there is no record that he was drafted that year.
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Postby tpakrac » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:50 am

Fantastic posts. I'll try to find all players drafted twice who never played in the NBA. It's a lot of digging, but it can be done.
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Postby rlee » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:58 am

Steve Schall (Arkansas) - 1979 5th Round - Spurs; 1980 10th Round - Spurs

Marvin Delph (Arkansas) - 1978 3rd Round - Buffalo; 1979 6th Rd - Boston
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Postby meej » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:33 pm

MCT wrote:The Draft Review indicates that Paxson played at Dayton in 1951-52 and 1952-53, did not play in 1953-54 and 1954-55, then played again in 1955-56. No explanation is provided for why Paxson sat out the two seasons. Based on this it's not clear if Paxson was actually eligible in 1954. To be eligible that year, he would have had to graduate from high school in 1950. Either way, it would appear that Paxson was a junior eligible in 1955, but there is no record that he was drafted that year.


Such a gap usually means armed forces.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

His father and Donoher were teammates at Dayton in the early '50s before the elder Paxson left school to spend two years in the Army during the Korean war. He came back in 1955 to finish his education and in 1956 helped take Dayton to the NIT finals. Upon graduation, he was drafted by the Lakers and married Jackie Macbeth.
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Postby tpakrac » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:26 pm

Harry Gallatin (Truman State University) - 1947 Baltimore Bullets, 1948 New York Knicks (Other Picks)
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Postby MCT » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:10 pm

MCT wrote:We know that if a junior eligible went back to school, he was eligible again the next year. And we know that if a junior eligible signed with the team that held his draft rights, he could then play for that team. It's less clear how things worked if the player did neither of these things, as was the case with Warley.

MCT wrote:Even with these corrections, the same basic questions about Warley remain open: What year did he graduate from high school? Was Warley was considered to be a freshman, sophomore and junior during the three years he played at Tennessee State, or was he a sophomore, junior and senior (e.g., if he played a year of college basketball somewhere else before he got to Tennessee State)?

I’ve come across some newspaper articles in the Google News Archive from the 1960 NBA preseason which may clarify Warley’s status to some extent, while muddying the waters further in other ways.

According to the articles, the Lakers traded Warley’s rights to the Hawks on September 1, 1960 in exchange for Dave Gambee and Lee Harman. On September 7, 1960, however, NBA Commissioner Maurice Podoloff voided the trade. According to an AP article that ran in several papers on September 8, Podoloff voided the trade because “Warley’s college class doesn’t graduate until January, 1961 and he will be ineligible for NBA play until then.” (Note: the AP article identifies the second player going from the Hawks to the Lakers as “rookie Len Harmon”, but this seems to be referring to a player named Lee Harman, who had been the Hawks’ 4th round pick in 1959, out of Oregon State. Harman never actually played in the NBA.)

This answers one question: if Warley’s college class wasn’t scheduled to graduate until January 1961, then he was presumably considered a junior at the time of the 1960 draft. Note that this was to occur in the middle of the 1960-61 school year, suggesting that Warley graduated from high school and/or started college midway through the 1956-57 school year. Assuming he was a junior eligible, Warley was already fairly unique in that he chose to neither immediately sign with the NBA nor return for another year of college, but to pursue another path. On top of that, we now have the added twist of midyear eligibility.

Podoloff’s explanation for why the trade was voided is kind of vague, though, and still leaves a few things unanswered. It’s not clear to me if Podoloff is saying that the Lakers didn’t actually hold Warley’s draft rights, or if they did but couldn’t trade them for some reason. It’s also unclear to me if Podoloff is saying that Warley will literally be eligible to enter the NBA in January 1961, or merely that he is eligible for the first draft that occurs after that date.

Was Warley simply not eligible for the 1960 draft at all (which would presumably be the case if he didn’t graduate from high school until midway through the 1956-57 school year), and the Lakers never really held his rights in the first place? Was he legitimately a junior eligible in 1960, but the Lakers’ rights to him had lapsed (because they failed to sign him before 1960-61 school year began), and he would go back into the draft in 1961? Did the Lakers still hold Warley’s rights as a junior eligible (perhaps because he hadn’t actually gone back to school), but once the school year began, they weren’t allowed to take any further action with regard to Warley until his college class graduated?
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Postby MCT » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:32 pm

tpakrac wrote:Harry Gallatin (Truman State University) - 1947 Baltimore Bullets, 1948 New York Knicks (Other Picks)

According to his entry in the All-Time Greats section of the NBA Register, Gallatin played two years of college basketball at Truman State (then known as Northeast Missouri State) in 1946-47 and 1947-48. A bio of Gallatin in Truman State’s record book states: “Gallatin and several other players [from the same era] were good students and graduated from college in only two years”.

A while back, we had a discussion about the 1949 NBA Draft. Based on media coverage of the 1949 draft referenced in that discussion, I believe that Gallatin was not actually drafted by the Knicks in 1948, but in 1949. To be more precise, he was signed by the Knicks subsequent to the 1948 draft in lieu of a 1949 2nd round draft pick after becoming “newly eligible” to play in the BAA. At the time, if a player graduated from college at a time other than the end of the school year, the BAA/NBA apparently allowed the player to sign with a BAA/NBA team right away, rather than wait until the next draft, but the team signing him would have to forfeit a pick in that draft. Gallatin presumably graduated at some point after the 1948 BAA Draft but before the start of Missouri State’s 1948-49 season (possibly at the end of the summer), and then signed with the Knicks.

I have a 1989 edition of the NBA Basketball Encyclopedia, and it lists Gallatin as having been drafted in 1949. Sometime over the past 20 years, someone seems to have shifted Gallatin to the 1948 list, apparently assuming that since he began his NBA career in 1948-49, he must have been drafted in 1948. The 1948 date now appears in several different sources, but I don’t think it’s correct. See the thread below:

http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2574

This still leaves open the question of why Gallatin was drafted in 1947. I have no idea; it seems unlikely that four years had already elapsed since his high school graduation. He may not have gone directly from high school to college, but I would be surprised if he graduated from high school any earlier than 1945. He was born in April 1927, and notes in the Register concerning Gallatin’s career as a baseball player (he played professionally for a few years, but never made it to the majors) indicate that he signed a pro baseball contract in January 1945. They also note that his baseball team placed him on the military service list in July 1945, which may explain his whereabouts in 1945-46.

The 1989 edition of the NBA Basketball Encyclopedia does not have any draft lists for years prior to 1949; I don't know where the information that Gallatin was drafted in 1947 originally came from. It seems like not a lot is known about early BAA draft procedure, and the four-year rule may not have originally been in place. Were BAA teams essentially allowed to draft anyone they wanted in 1947, regardless of undergraduate status?
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Postby tpakrac » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:50 pm

I want to check all players that were drafted twice using basketball-reference as my main source. But based on what you wrote plus thread about George Kaftan and the BAA draft it is not reliable to use basketball-reference for 1947, 1948 and 1949 BAA draft.
Zander Hollander's book is probably the best source for BAA draft.
Maybe Ray can solve Gallatin's mysterious year of drafting (1949 instead of 1948) with a few phone calls.
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Postby rlee » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:34 pm

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Postby tpakrac » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:01 pm

Inconclusive.
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Postby rlee » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:56 pm

Here is a another post w/ some biographical info:

http://apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9 ... y+gallatin
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Postby MCT » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:33 pm

tpakrac wrote:I want to check all players that were drafted twice using basketball-reference as my main source. But based on what you wrote plus thread about George Kaftan and the BAA draft it is not reliable to use basketball-reference for 1947, 1948 and 1949 BAA draft.

It's not so much that basketball-reference in particular is unreliable, but that the NBA just didn't keep good records in those days, leading to a lot of questionable or incomplete information on early drafts. In addition, most modern reference sources haven't undertaken any independent reseach of these matters, but have just copied other sources, largely recycling the same draft info that's been floating around since Hollander compiled his encylopedia back in the '70s.

I'd love to know what the original source is of Gallatin being listed as a 1948 draft pick rather than 1949. As recently as 1989, the NBA Basketball Encyclopedia was still listing him under 1949. Presumably after that point, someone saw that he had played in the NBA during the 1948-49 season and concluded that 1949 must be a typo, without researching the matter any further. Even the NBA Register and NBA Guide claim that Gallatin was the Knicks' first-round pick in 1948.

tapkrac wrote:Zander Hollander's book is probably the best source for BAA draft.

I don't have a copy of Hollander's book, but the 1989 edition of the NBA Basketball Encyclopedia doesn't have any draft info at all for years prior to 1949. It says that records are unavailable. I assume that this book's draft info was sourced from Hollander's, so Hollander's book probably doesn't have any info for the 1947 and 1948 drafts either.
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Postby MCT » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:28 pm

rlee wrote:Does this help, clarify or muddy?:

http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... y+gallatin

rlee wrote:Here is a another post w/ some biographical info:

http://apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9 ... y+gallatin

Both articles claim that Gallatin was drafted by the Knicks in 1948, but right or wrong, that could have been sourced from any number of places (b-r.con, NBA Register, etc.) -- I don't think its mention in these articles proves or disproves anything.

I found the discussion in the first article about the St. Louis Bombers possibly making Gallatin a territorial pick interesting for three reasons. First, Gallatin is presumably talking about the 1948 draft (it's certainly a draft prior to 1949), but if the newspaper articles covering the 1949 draft can be trusted, it doesn't appear that Gallatin was actually drafted by anyone in 1948. Second, I don't know if the territorial rule goes all the way back to the beginning of the BAA/NBA, or if not, exactly when it started. The earliest mention of it that I've seen was in 1949. Gallatin's comments suggest that it was in effect at least as far back as 1948, since he seems to be talking about a draft prior to 1949. Third, there is a reference to a 100-mile limit for territorial rights. It's my understanding that the limit was actually 50 miles, but I've seen some conflicting info on this. It's possible that the rule changed over time.

The second article indicates that Gallatin attended high school from 1940 to 1944. I had been thinking that 1948 may have been the first year of the "four-year rule", and Gallatin wasn't drafted that year because he wasn't four years out of high school. (If the rule wasn't yet in effect in 1947, that would explain why he was drafted that year, but not in '48.) But that theory is obviously wrong if Gallatin graduated from high school in 1944.

Maybe BAA teams could draft anyone in 1947; then were restricted to players who had either graduated or exhausted their eligibility in 1948; then the four-year rule came along later? To paraphrase what I said in an earlier post, little seems to be known about early BAA draft procedure....
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A new twist re: early draft rules?

Postby rlee » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:38 pm

From "Sport Life" 4/53:

"Carl Braun was a find for the Knicks, even though his success at Colgate put him in the spotlight for 2 years. The Knicks never dreamed they'd pick (him up) w/o a struggle when the time came for him to be drafted. As it turned out, the time for drafting never came - at least from the NBA standpoint, although the US Army eventually beckoned.

"NY acquired Braun by 1 of those welcome twists of fate, and was treated to its top scorer in the 47-48, 48-49 & 49-50 seasons for practically a pittance. This is the way it happened one day in 1947:

"It was the annual player-draft meeting of the NBA. Attending for the 1st time was Joe Lapchick, who had just left a successful era as St. John's coach & returned to the pros...Now he was coach of the Knicks. And there he was at the meeting w/ his boss Ned Irish. The 1 thing they were looking for was a big man...Anyway, the owners & coaches were sitting around talking players & rules when Eddie Gottlieb suddenly proposed ' I think that if a player has turned pro in another sport, it isn't necessary for us to wait until his class graduates to sign him'

"Gottlieb had no particular player in mind. He was speaking generally about the rule...Everyone agreed with him, because a kid who signed a pro contract in another sport: '(1) would be no good to a college program and (2) the finger couldn't be pointed a pro hoops for "stealing" him.'

"As an informal ballot made the proposal official, Irish nudged Lapchick. The Knick coach leaned over & Irish whispered: 'Go call (Knicks biz mgr) Goldner. Tell him to notify the league office that we want to put Carl Braun on our negotiation list.'

"Lapchick didn't stop to question why. He knew enough about Braun to want him himself....So when Gottlieb unwittingly set the stage, Irish & Lapchick acted swiftly. Braun had played only 2 seasons @ Colgate, one as a varsity-eligible freshman, before starting a 6-month stay in the Merchant Marine. After the 2nd season, in July 1947, Carl was signed to a Newark baseball contract by the Yankees' head scout. He was through as a college athlete, & 2 mos later, after the fateful NBA mtg, he was to have the foundation laid for a successful pro hoops career."
Last edited by rlee on Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MCT » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:52 am

Thanks, Ray -- that's very interesting. This would explain why Gallatin was eligible for the draft in 1947. According to his entry in the NBA Register, Gallatin had signed a pro baseball contract back in 1945. (NCAA rules at the time precluded a player who had signed a pro contract from playing any sport at the college level, but this wouldn't have applied to Gallatin because Northeast Missouri State was an NAIA school.) I'm curious as to whether this rule was changed after just that one year, as Gallatin apparently wasn't drafted in 1948. Gene Conley signed a pro baseball contract in 1950 following his sophomore year of college, but he wasn't drafted by the NBA until the year he would have been a senior (1952). Can anyone think of anyone else from this era who may have been affected by this rule? As discussed in another recent thread, Neil Johnston signed a pro baseball contract in 1948 following his sophomore year of college, but he doesn't appear to have ever been drafted by the NBA, so no conclusions can be drawn.

As for Gallatin's baseball career: According to the info in the NBA Register, Gallatin signed with Erwin (Tenn.) of the Appalachian League in January 1945. He was placed on the military service list in July 1945. The Register indicates that he remained on the military service list until February 24, 1949, even though he was able to play college or pro basketball during the 1946-47, 1947-48 and 1948-49 basketball seasons. During the 1949 baseball season, he played for Decatur (Ill.) of the Illinois-Indiana-Iowa League -- better known as the "Three I" League. In 32 games as a pitcher, he had a 7-9 record with a 4.28 ERA.

baseball-reference.com indicates that Gallatin also played for Decatur in 1950, appearing in 12 games as a pitcher, but has no other pitching statistics for him for that year. That site has batting statistics for Gallatin for both 1949 and 1950, which show that he appeared in one additional game each year in which he did not pitch (he was presumably used as a pinch hitter or pinch runner and then left the game without appearing in the field). The Register states that Gallatin was placed on the suspended list on July 13, 1950, then released on September 29, 1950.

Neither of the above sources has any stats for Gallatin for 1945. It's unclear to me if he didn't play that year before going into the service, or if he did but stats just aren't available.

MCT wrote:I'd love to know what the original source is of Gallatin being listed as a 1948 draft pick rather than 1949. As recently as 1989, the NBA Basketball Encyclopedia was still listing him under 1949. Presumably after that point, someone saw that he had played in the NBA during the 1948-49 season and concluded that 1949 must be a typo, without researching the matter any further. Even the NBA Register and NBA Guide claim that Gallatin was the Knicks' first-round pick in 1948.

I may have to revise the timeline here. The NBA Register has been showing Gallatin's draft year as 1948 since the '80s. It may even be the original source of the discrepancy.
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Postby Robert Bradley » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:36 pm

In regards to Harry Gallatin, I found a 22Mar49 article in the Frederick (MD) News Post which states that Gallatin, Howie Shannon and George Kaftan were drafted by New York, Providence and Boston as part of an agreement that they could be signed during the 1948-49 season prior to the 1949 draft.
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Postby rlee » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:44 pm

Check out this earlier discussion re: Gallatin, Shannon & Kaftan

http://apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2574
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Postby Matthew Maurer » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:57 pm

MCT wrote:The Draft Review has Garmaker at Hibbing in 1951-52 (but with no stats), sitting out 1952-53, then at Minnesota in 1953-54 and 1954-55. Taken literally, this would suggest that Garmaker was a junior eligible in 1955. I think showing Garmaker at Hibbing for only one year may be another "educated guess"/"lack of information" situation, however. The Google News Archive has an article from the 2/16/54 edition of the Milwaukee Journal, reporting on the previous day's Minnesota-Wisconsin game, which states that Garmaker "spent two years at Hibbing (Minn) junior college". Based on that, I'm comfortable with concluding that Garmaker was a junior eligible in 1954.

The earliest I am aware of any players being selected as junior eligibles was 1953, when the Celtics took three players from the University of Kentucky who had sat out the 1952-53 season due to UK suspending its basketball program for a year in the wake of the early '50s college betting scandals (Frank Ramsey, Cliff Hagan and Lou Tsioropolous). At that time, a team that selected a junior eligible appears to have kept his rights permanently, with no opportunity for the player to go back into the draft again. All of the players the Celtics drafted returned to school for the 1953-54 season, but none were ever re-drafted in a subsequent year, and all three eventually began their NBA careers with the Celtics or with a team the Celtics had traded their rights to.

The rule was obviously changed at some point so that a junior eligible who returned to school could be selected again as a senior. Garmaker's draft history suggests that 1953 was the last year that a team held the rights to a junior eligible permanently, and 1954 was the first year a team would only retain a junior eligible's rights until the school year started up again. As such, Garmaker may have been the first player ever to be drafted twice.

1953 may very well have been the first year that the junior eligible rule existed, and thus the only year that the "permanent rights" version of the rule was in effect. In a previous thread it was suggested that Red Auerbach may have lobbied for the rule's passage with the Kentucky players in mind (see http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=923). It looks like, after what Auerbach did in '53, the other owners immediately changed the rule so it would no longer be possible for a team to stockpile the rights to junior eligibles as Boston had done.


I have contacted a buddy of mine who has some team photographs of Hibbing with Garmaker in it seems we are right and wrong 1951 and 1952 Garmaker was indeed on the Hibbing JC team that has been verified. A Minnesota SID told me that Garmaker through admission records was at Minnesota for what would have been the 1953 season but did not play.
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