2017 draft analytics

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EvanZ
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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by EvanZ » Fri May 19, 2017 4:02 pm

Why in the world would Chicago want IT? He's the same age (maybe older?) as Butler...if you're going to rebuild, you do it around youth. That would be an insane trade.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by JoshEngleman » Fri May 19, 2017 4:15 pm

EvanZ wrote:Why in the world would Chicago want IT? He's the same age (maybe older?) as Butler...if you're going to rebuild, you do it around youth. That would be an insane trade.
I'm not saying it's a good deal. :)

This gives the Bulls a way to press the reset button while also remaining "relevant". In theory, Isaiah would then get a big deal from Chicago and be the face of the Bulls moving forward. This is a team that signed Wade and Rondo last off-season. It's not like they're making good decisions. Isaiah just got 2nd team All-NBA. Butler got 3rd. You can spin that as an upgrade to stupid people.

Rd11490
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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by Rd11490 » Fri May 19, 2017 4:29 pm

A lot of the reporting out of Chicago has been that they want to rebuild in a similar way to what Boston did. Stay relevant and competitive while also getting Lotto picks for the future. Of course this speculation is based on the reported asking price for Butler at this year's trade deadline, 2/4 of Bradley, Crowder, Smart or Brown + Nets Picks, so take it with a grain of salt. That being said, we do know based on their decisions over the past 10 years that the Bulls are not a well run franchise, so it would not surprise me at all if they were willing to trade for IT.

I do agree with the original sentiment though, the best move the celtics could make would be to move off of IT as soon as possible. That max contract that he is going to demand is going to be franchise crippling to which ever team offers it.

EvanZ
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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by EvanZ » Fri May 19, 2017 4:31 pm

JoshEngleman wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Why in the world would Chicago want IT? He's the same age (maybe older?) as Butler...if you're going to rebuild, you do it around youth. That would be an insane trade.
I'm not saying it's a good deal. :)

This gives the Bulls a way to press the reset button while also remaining "relevant". In theory, Isaiah would then get a big deal from Chicago and be the face of the Bulls moving forward. This is a team that signed Wade and Rondo last off-season. It's not like they're making good decisions. Isaiah just got 2nd team All-NBA. Butler got 3rd. You can spin that as an upgrade to stupid people.
Again, he's the same age as Jimmy Butler. Why would you trade for a guy who is the same age, but worse than a player you already have? It doesn't even make sense from the perspective of "lying to fans". I don't even think a dumb GM would make that deal.

I get that the trade is incredible from the perspective of BOS. Of course Boston does this deal. But a trade only works if the minimum value for both sides is high enough, not the sum total.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by JoshEngleman » Fri May 19, 2017 4:34 pm

EvanZ wrote:
JoshEngleman wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Why in the world would Chicago want IT? He's the same age (maybe older?) as Butler...if you're going to rebuild, you do it around youth. That would be an insane trade.
I'm not saying it's a good deal. :)

This gives the Bulls a way to press the reset button while also remaining "relevant". In theory, Isaiah would then get a big deal from Chicago and be the face of the Bulls moving forward. This is a team that signed Wade and Rondo last off-season. It's not like they're making good decisions. Isaiah just got 2nd team All-NBA. Butler got 3rd. You can spin that as an upgrade to stupid people.
Again, he's the same age as Jimmy Butler. Why would you trade for a guy who is the same age, but worse than a player you already have? It doesn't even make sense from the perspective of "lying to fans". I don't even think a dumb GM would make that deal.
You wouldn't. There's basically no chance that deal happens. I just think the Celtics need to offload Isaiah.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by EvanZ » Fri May 19, 2017 5:27 pm

JoshEngleman wrote:
You wouldn't. There's basically no chance that deal happens. I just think the Celtics need to offload Isaiah.
It depends what their goal is. If the goal is to beat LeBron in the next 2-3 years, no. They need his talent and they won't find comparable talent coming back.

If the goal is to tear it down and wait for the post-LeBron era, I would agree.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by JoshEngleman » Fri May 19, 2017 5:36 pm

EvanZ wrote:
JoshEngleman wrote:
You wouldn't. There's basically no chance that deal happens. I just think the Celtics need to offload Isaiah.
It depends what their goal is. If the goal is to beat LeBron in the next 2-3 years, no. They need his talent and they won't find comparable talent coming back.

If the goal is to tear it down and wait for the post-LeBron era, I would agree.
In my opinion, if the goal is to beat LeBron in the next 2-3 years, they can't do it with Isaiah Thomas. He is too much of a defensive liability in the playoffs. 2017-18 is the last year you want to have Isaiah Thomas under contract if you are the Boston Celtics.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by EvanZ » Fri May 19, 2017 6:09 pm

JoshEngleman wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
JoshEngleman wrote:
You wouldn't. There's basically no chance that deal happens. I just think the Celtics need to offload Isaiah.
It depends what their goal is. If the goal is to beat LeBron in the next 2-3 years, no. They need his talent and they won't find comparable talent coming back.

If the goal is to tear it down and wait for the post-LeBron era, I would agree.
In my opinion, if the goal is to beat LeBron in the next 2-3 years, they can't do it with Isaiah Thomas. He is too much of a defensive liability in the playoffs. 2017-18 is the last year you want to have Isaiah Thomas under contract if you are the Boston Celtics.
I tend to agree with that logic. I think Ainge is hoping to god that Fultz looks so good, that they can let IT walk or trade him mid-season for another piece.

I don't think Fultz gets them much closer to beating LeBron in the next 2-3 years regardless.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by JoshEngleman » Fri May 19, 2017 7:10 pm

EvanZ wrote: I tend to agree with that logic. I think Ainge is hoping to god that Fultz looks so good, that they can let IT walk or trade him mid-season for another piece.

I don't think Fultz gets them much closer to beating LeBron in the next 2-3 years regardless.
It's going to be a really interesting time for the Celtics, particularly if the Cavs throttle them. Ainge has been all about the assets for the past few years. It's going to be fascinating how he deals with the Isaiah, because unless they can pull off the full consolidation of talent (Butler/George & Hayward), the next logical step is cashing in on IT's value.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by EvanZ » Fri May 19, 2017 8:04 pm

What is IT's "value" outside of Boston though? It was never high before he got there. And he's only getting older. I don't see Ainge getting that much in return for him.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by JoshEngleman » Fri May 19, 2017 8:34 pm

EvanZ wrote:What is IT's "value" outside of Boston though? It was never high before he got there. And he's only getting older. I don't see Ainge getting that much in return for him.
Great question. He's probably worth close to $30m in surplus value for next year. Looking over the rest of the teams, I have no idea where he could go. For someone that just made 2nd Team All-NBA, I honestly can't find a smooth fit.

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Re: 2017 draft analytics

Post by jgoldstein34 » Sat May 20, 2017 12:58 pm

I'm not sure the goal is to beat LeBron in the next 2-3 years. I think it's to be good enough to be able to beat him after that when he's a bit older.

IT's surplus value is pretty high, but his trade value isn't. He's a 28 year old 5'9" (at best) PG would is one of the worst defenders in the league. He's not a bad defender for lack of effort, he's just not big enough to contest shots. Trading IT for anything will make sure they don't get stuck with what will be an awful contract. Maybe the Kings would be willing to take him back for a draft pick and some young pieces. I think Jimmy is much more get-able than you're implying, seems that JB and his agent are pressuring the Bulls to trade him. The Bulls front office is pretty abysmal, I think you could convince them IT was an upgrade over Jimmy without much trouble.

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