2017-18 team win projection contest

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Crow
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Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Crow » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm

Jacob G., is there some blend of PIPM and RPM that beats everything? How does 50/50 blend do? Is there a notable difference how each does separately for good / bad teams, major / minor players?

Crow
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Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Crow » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:05 pm

Separation of top & bottom is 1: that is small. How much is random vs. sustainable precision difference? Maybe there ought to be a multi-year projection contest in future for entries that can do that.

Or less complicated, use existing projections to run the playoff brackets after they are determined.

Mike G
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Location: Asheville, NC

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Mike G » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:38 pm

A new [co] leader

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
cali   4.52   5.71      kmed   4.87   5.97
sbs.   4.54   5.57      Nath   4.93   6.04
RyRi   4.58   5.54      emin   5.02   5.90
538_   4.61   5.82      GK5.   5.02   6.47
lnqi   4.61   5.65      ATCt   5.10   6.50
shad   4.69   5.96      Crow   5.13   6.22
sndi   4.75   5.52      Josh   5.15   6.16
vegas  4.76   5.85      knar   5.31   6.51
AJBk   4.84   5.95      Mike   5.42   6.42
gold   4.85   6.06      ncs.   5.59   6.88
Top 5's for various exponents:

Code: Select all

exp =  0.15      exp =  0.70      exp =  1.30
538_   2.74      cali   4.04      sbs.   4.87
GK5.   2.81      538_   4.14      RyRi   4.90
cali   2.92      sbs.   4.18      cali   4.94
AJBk   2.95      lnqi   4.20      lnqi   4.96
RyRi   3.02      RyRi   4.21      sndi   5.00

exp =  1.77      exp =  5.00      exp =  10.0
RyRi   5.34      sndi   7.12      emin   8.58
sbs.   5.35      RyRi   7.35      sndi   8.61
sndi   5.36      lnqi   7.38      lnqi   8.68
lnqi   5.44      emin   7.43      RyRi   8.71
cali   5.48      sbs.   7.56      AJBk   8.94

Mike G
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Location: Asheville, NC

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Mike G » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:50 pm

That didn't last long

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
RyRi   4.69   5.78      Nath   5.08   6.24
sbs.   4.75   5.83      GK5.   5.08   6.69
cali   4.77   5.96      gold   5.10   6.28
538_   4.78   5.99      emin   5.10   6.07
lnqi   4.82   5.92      Crow   5.28   6.44
shad   4.84   6.20      Josh   5.28   6.36
sndi   4.89   5.73      ATCt   5.32   6.76
vegas  4.91   6.09      knar   5.53   6.78
AJBk   4.96   6.15      Mike   5.59   6.66
kmed   4.97   6.19      ncs.   5.72   7.11
The 4.69 leading number is highest/worst since Dec. 24, also the last day sndesai was on top.
RyRi then rode the top spot down to the season's low of 3.79 on Jan. 4. He and sbs then were 1-2 thru Feb.

Crow
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Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Crow » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:25 pm

Best avg. absolute error showing worse right now than best from end of last season but still time to tighten up. Less than 1 difference. Not sure I really care that much about the last win error on avg. Looks like pretty good to good to me.

Mike G
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Location: Asheville, NC

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Mike G » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:00 am

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
538_   5.05   6.34      GK5.   5.33   7.04
RyRi   5.05   6.18      emin   5.33   6.38
sbs.   5.08   6.24      Nath   5.40   6.57
cali   5.10   6.31      Josh   5.57   6.74
sndi   5.17   6.08      Crow   5.58   6.79
kmed   5.18   6.48      gold   5.62   6.78
lnqi   5.21   6.33      ATCt   5.62   7.06
shad   5.24   6.64      Mike   5.71   6.89
vegas  5.26   6.52      knar   5.78   7.05
AJBk   5.26   6.52      ncs.   6.07   7.38
Last time the leader was over 5 was early Dec. Back then, last place was over 7.

Leaders tend to be those who have avoided major misses. Risk taking extremists get pummeled.

Code: Select all

.      Best                 Worst
538_   Atl,Was,GSW,LAL    Orl,Tor
RyRi   Chi,NYK
sbs.   Det,Mia
cali   Det,Was
sndi   Cha,NYK,SAS            Chi
kmed   Phx,Por,Sac    
.             Cha,Det,NYK,Was,NOP
lnqi   Atl,Sac                NOP
shad   Mia,NYK            Hou,Mem
AJBk   Ind,Mia,Mil,Min,OKC,Sac  
.                         Atl,LAC
GK5.   Chi,Cle,Mia,Mil,GSW,Uta  
.                 Phl,Hou,Phx,SAS
emin   Cha,Orl,Tor    Den,Min,Por
Nath   Cha,Phl            Ind,Was
Josh   Den,Uta        Bos,Por,Sac
Crow   Atl,Dal,Phx            Was
gold   Atl,Cle    Ind,Mia,NOP,OKC
ATCt   ..                     Cha
Mike   Mia,Hou,LAC,Min,NOP,SAS 
.             Brk,Det,Dal,GSW,Uta
knar   Brk,Mem,Phx            Det
ncs.   ..     Bos,Cle,GSW,LAC,LAL
Ties are also listed (rounded to integer).

UPDATE Mar. 13

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
538_   5.20   6.69      GK5.   5.60   7.38
sndi   5.31   6.37      Nath   5.64   6.88
cali   5.32   6.65      AJBk   5.70   6.94
sbs.   5.33   6.63      ATCt   5.79   7.38
RyRi   5.33   6.55      Crow   5.86   7.14
kmed   5.34   6.79      gold   5.88   7.10
lnqi   5.38   6.67      Josh   5.94   7.10
emin   5.41   6.61      knar   5.99   7.42
shad   5.50   7.03      Mike   6.00   7.27
vegas  5.51   6.90      ncs.   6.30   7.76

Mike G
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Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Mike G » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:05 am

Raptors and Rockets each with 1/3 chance of winning it all, according to b-r.com
Showing prob of reaching the Finals; winning it; and chance of winning IF they get there:

Code: Select all

C    tm   reach   win    W/R
e   Tor   .636   .327   .514
w   Hou   .493   .327   .663
w   GSW   .352   .221   .628
e   Bos   .179   .052   .29
e   Phl   .068   .014   .21
w   Uta   .032   .012   .38
w   OKC   .027   .009   .33
w   Min   .036   .008   .22
w   Por   .026   .007   .27
e   Ind   .039   .006   .15
e   Was   .031   .005   .16
e   Cle   .020   .003   .15
https://www.basketball-reference.com/fr ... _prob.html

nbacouchside
Posts: 113
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Contact:

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by nbacouchside » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:21 pm

Turns out that screwing up your aging curve has a pretty big effect!

Mike G wrote:

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
538_   5.05   6.34      GK5.   5.33   7.04
RyRi   5.05   6.18      emin   5.33   6.38
sbs.   5.08   6.24      Nath   5.40   6.57
cali   5.10   6.31      Josh   5.57   6.74
sndi   5.17   6.08      Crow   5.58   6.79
kmed   5.18   6.48      gold   5.62   6.78
lnqi   5.21   6.33      ATCt   5.62   7.06
shad   5.24   6.64      Mike   5.71   6.89
vegas  5.26   6.52      knar   5.78   7.05
AJBk   5.26   6.52      ncs.   6.07   7.38
Last time the leader was over 5 was early Dec. Back then, last place was over 7.

Leaders tend to be those who have avoided major misses. Risk taking extremists get pummeled.

Code: Select all

.      Best                 Worst
538_   Atl,Was,GSW,LAL    Orl,Tor
RyRi   Chi,NYK
sbs.   Det,Mia
cali   Det,Was
sndi   Cha,NYK,SAS            Chi
kmed   Phx,Por,Sac    
.             Cha,Det,NYK,Was,NOP
lnqi   Atl,Sac                NOP
shad   Mia,NYK            Hou,Mem
AJBk   Ind,Mia,Mil,Min,OKC,Sac  
.                         Atl,LAC
GK5.   Chi,Cle,Mia,Mil,GSW,Uta  
.                 Phl,Hou,Phx,SAS
emin   Cha,Orl,Tor    Den,Min,Por
Nath   Cha,Phl            Ind,Was
Josh   Den,Uta        Bos,Por,Sac
Crow   Atl,Dal,Phx            Was
gold   Atl,Cle    Ind,Mia,NOP,OKC
ATCt   ..                     Cha
Mike   Mia,Hou,LAC,Min,NOP,SAS 
.             Brk,Det,Dal,GSW,Uta
knar   Brk,Mem,Phx            Det
ncs.   ..     Bos,Cle,GSW,LAC,LAL
Ties are also listed (rounded to integer).

UPDATE Mar. 13

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
538_   5.20   6.69      GK5.   5.60   7.38
sndi   5.31   6.37      Nath   5.64   6.88
cali   5.32   6.65      AJBk   5.70   6.94
sbs.   5.33   6.63      ATCt   5.79   7.38
RyRi   5.33   6.55      Crow   5.86   7.14
kmed   5.34   6.79      gold   5.88   7.10
lnqi   5.38   6.67      Josh   5.94   7.10
emin   5.41   6.61      knar   5.99   7.42
shad   5.50   7.03      Mike   6.00   7.27
vegas  5.51   6.90      ncs.   6.30   7.76

eminence
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:20 pm

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by eminence » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:55 pm

Blazing up the rankings, woohoo, wonder if it's mostly my Jazz getting closer to expactations or what.

Mike G
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Location: Asheville, NC

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Mike G » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:06 pm

That has certainly helped. Other improving teams that favor your positions: GSW, LAC
Also teams getting worse: Atl, Brk, Det, NYK, Dal, Phx

Despite having 11 of the most extreme guesses, you have only 3 of the worst for a team.
Your Tor prediction of 56 is the biggest outlier on the board, fully 8 wins above the avg and 5 higher than anyone else. It's one of 4 that you have a best guess.

At any exponent >7, you would be at #1; currently 3rd in RMSE (e=2).

eminence
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:20 pm

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by eminence » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:19 pm

Mike G wrote:That has certainly helped. Other improving teams that favor your positions: GSW, LAC
Also teams getting worse: Atl, Brk, Det, NYK, Dal, Phx

Despite having 11 of the most extreme guesses, you have only 3 of the worst for a team.
Your Tor prediction of 56 is the biggest outlier on the board, fully 8 wins above the avg and 5 higher than anyone else. It's one of 4 that you have a best guess.

At any exponent >7, you would be at #1; currently 3rd in RMSE (e=2).
Thanks for breaking it down Mike!

Only payed attention to the teams getting better, it's just not much fun to follow those lower teams at this point in the season (for me).

And thanks Toronto!

GK5
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:53 am

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by GK5 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:04 pm

Mike G wrote:

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
538_   5.05   6.34      GK5.   5.33   7.04
RyRi   5.05   6.18      emin   5.33   6.38
sbs.   5.08   6.24      Nath   5.40   6.57
cali   5.10   6.31      Josh   5.57   6.74
sndi   5.17   6.08      Crow   5.58   6.79
kmed   5.18   6.48      gold   5.62   6.78
lnqi   5.21   6.33      ATCt   5.62   7.06
shad   5.24   6.64      Mike   5.71   6.89
vegas  5.26   6.52      knar   5.78   7.05
AJBk   5.26   6.52      ncs.   6.07   7.38
Last time the leader was over 5 was early Dec. Back then, last place was over 7.

Leaders tend to be those who have avoided major misses. Risk taking extremists get pummeled.

Code: Select all

.      Best                 Worst
538_   Atl,Was,GSW,LAL    Orl,Tor
RyRi   Chi,NYK
sbs.   Det,Mia
cali   Det,Was
sndi   Cha,NYK,SAS            Chi
kmed   Phx,Por,Sac    
.             Cha,Det,NYK,Was,NOP
lnqi   Atl,Sac                NOP
shad   Mia,NYK            Hou,Mem
AJBk   Ind,Mia,Mil,Min,OKC,Sac  
.                         Atl,LAC
GK5.   Chi,Cle,Mia,Mil,GSW,Uta  
.                 Phl,Hou,Phx,SAS
emin   Cha,Orl,Tor    Den,Min,Por
Nath   Cha,Phl            Ind,Was
Josh   Den,Uta        Bos,Por,Sac
Crow   Atl,Dal,Phx            Was
gold   Atl,Cle    Ind,Mia,NOP,OKC
ATCt   ..                     Cha
Mike   Mia,Hou,LAC,Min,NOP,SAS 
.             Brk,Det,Dal,GSW,Uta
knar   Brk,Mem,Phx            Det
ncs.   ..     Bos,Cle,GSW,LAC,LAL
Ties are also listed (rounded to integer).

UPDATE Mar. 13

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
538_   5.20   6.69      GK5.   5.60   7.38
sndi   5.31   6.37      Nath   5.64   6.88
cali   5.32   6.65      AJBk   5.70   6.94
sbs.   5.33   6.63      ATCt   5.79   7.38
RyRi   5.33   6.55      Crow   5.86   7.14
kmed   5.34   6.79      gold   5.88   7.10
lnqi   5.38   6.67      Josh   5.94   7.10
emin   5.41   6.61      knar   5.99   7.42
shad   5.50   7.03      Mike   6.00   7.27
vegas  5.51   6.90      ncs.   6.30   7.76
Were my results as extreme as Eminence's? It seems like I had one of the most best/worst guesses on the board. My avg abs err is mid tier, but I'm getting killed in RMSE.

Mike G
Posts: 4424
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:02 am
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Mike G » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:38 pm

At the 4th power, you're in last place. At the 1/2 power, you're in first!

Here are our avg errors, your errors, and yours relative to avg.
On the left are teams that you guessed better than our avg -- 17 of 30 teams.
On the right are the 13 where you're currently looking worse than avg.

Code: Select all

tm  avg  GK5  diff      tm  avg  GK5 diff
GSW   5   1   -4.5      Phl  11  17   6.1
Okl   4   0   -3.9      Phx   5  10   5.3
Cle   8   5   -3.3      SAS   7  12   4.7
Mil   3   0   -3.0      Dal   4   8   3.5
Chi   3   1   -2.6      Hou   6   9   3.2
LAL  10   7   -2.4      Den   3   6   3.0
Uta   4   2   -2.4      Atl   3   5   1.4
Sac   2   1   -1.9      Por   8   9   1.2
Det   2   0   -1.8      LAC   4   5   0.7
NOP   4   3   -1.8      Mem  14  14   0.4
Brk   2   1   -1.6      Tor  13  13   0.3
Mia   2   0   -1.4      Cha   8   8   0.2
Was   2   1   -1.0      Orl   7   7   0.1
Ind  14  13   -0.7               
NYK   2   1   -0.4               
Bos   7   6   -0.2               
Min   2   2   -0.2               
totals       -33.1                   30.1
Not only are you 'winning' 57% of them, you're 13-8 in absolute differences >1.0; AND your total of Both columns is -3.0, which is .10 per team better than avg.
BUT your 3 biggest are all on the wrong side of the ledger. Squaring all, those 3 -- Phl, Phx, SA -- entirely wipe out the 23 'successes'.

Average is a tough standard here. Vegas is avg.

Mike G
Posts: 4424
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:02 am
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by Mike G » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:32 am

Shuffling in the tight upper echelon and in the upper bottoms. And the whole spread is now just .95 top to bottom.

Code: Select all

avg abs err   RMSE      avg abs err   RMSE
538_   5.35   6.83      Nath   5.67   6.97
emin   5.36   6.66      GK5.   5.67   7.49
sndi   5.39   6.52      AJBk   5.91   7.15
RyRi   5.45   6.71      ATCt   5.91   7.50
cali   5.45   6.78      Mike   5.96   7.38
sbs.   5.45   6.79      Josh   6.00   7.17
kmed   5.47   6.92      Crow   6.06   7.32
vegas  5.56   7.02      knar   6.12   7.54
lnqi   5.60   6.81      gold   6.13   7.31
shad   5.66   7.18      ncs.   6.30   7.87
Leaders within range of exponents:

Code: Select all

exp/root     lead
.01 to .55    GK5
.56 - 1.04    538
1.05 - 1.13  emin
1.14 - 5.6   sndi
5.7 +        emin

eminence
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:20 pm

Re: 2017-18 team win projection contest

Post by eminence » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:48 am

Woohoo! If the season could end today that'd make me feel pretty good :)

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