TWolves?

[Dr Positivity]

Wiggins for Butler would be a perfect trade for them, no idea if it's available but the Bulls may be that sucker, if #8 has to be in there too so be it. Love Rubio, Butler, Towns combination with Thibs

[shadow]

I like Butler a lot too, but who would play the 2 or 3 in that scenario? Basically whichever one Butler doesn't play. Butler is more of a natural 2 in my mind, so that leaves a pretty gaping hole at the 3. Somehow I don't feel like Casspi or Muhammad are the long term answers there.

If Butler plays the 3, you're still stuck with Lavine playing the 2. Lavine posted a -3.01 RPM this year. Granted, that's an improvement over a -3.71 from last year, but it would have been hard not to improve on that rating. I think they'd be better off trying to find a sucker to take Lavine rather than Wiggins. Just call up one the teams that is a non-believer in advanced metrics like the Nets, Knicks, or Lakers (source) and see if they bite on Lavine.

[shadow]

Two biggest minute lineups with LaVine & Wiggins, negative plus minus.
Four biggest minute lineups with just one? All positive, two very strong.

I'm assuming these are raw on/off numbers. In that case, isn't it likely these stats are being impacted quite a bit by who those lineups are playing against? If the two biggest minute lineups with LaVine and Wiggins are primarily going against starters and the others with just one of them are primarily against bench players (or at least not 5 starters), then that could be impacting the resulting plus/minus just as much as their own performance in those lineups.

I'm far from an expert on this matter, but I believe raw on/off numbers at the lineup level are subject to even more noise than individual player raw plus/minus, which is already quite noisy.

[pdevos]

I am not a Wolves fan. I looked at them a few times to see if I could get aboard but little happened this season to encourage me. Unless they make trades I don't see enough to support. Garbage defense irritates me. 18th or 22nd on defensive efficiency, small improvement? I'd grumble but maybe could ride. 27th and 1.5 points worse than last season? Can't stomach.


You could keep both and minimize their time together. Thibs? He increased their minutes together dramatically. Up about 60% from previous season. Will he reverse course or do same? I'm expecting more of same, at least at start of season.

I agree on both account, bold for emphasis. I have lived in North Dallas area now for 8 years. Have no intensions of ever living in MN again, but they are definitely my team. But I do hate the personnel of the team. Anyone who doesn't play a lick of defense and is a bonehead in that department, e.g. in order: Muhammad, LaVine, Wiggins, Tyus Jones, Bjelica, and even Towns. I have to turn off games sometimes.

Teams to Watch

As coaches I love Steve Clifford (Hornets coach) the most. I really like Brad Stevens (who doesn't though) and Dave Joerger as well. Though, for me, both teams are hard to watch. Had enough of the Spurs, Warriors, and Cavs for a lifetime. For my taste, Houston's Ariza, Capela, and Beverley offer some redeeming value for defense and playing in your strengths. Harden can be fun too. The NBA seems to be mostly stars vs 'good defensive' teams or solid teams. Warriors are probably the best at passing, defense, and pushing the break at every opportune time. Simple basketball really.

So, which team(s) are left for you to pull for? Did/do you have a hometown team?

[Crow]

Sonics were my adopted "hometown" team. Had another way back.

I continued to follow the Thunder after the move out of habit and because no one else really grabbed me enough to change.

Over the long haul I followed a lot of contenders / title winners when they were the easiest to follow. Celtics, Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Jazz, Blazers and Spurs several times.

The Sonics were the most my team but I was pretty into the others when they were really good.

In last year or two I considered going back to Spurs or to Warriors. The idea hasn't gone anywhere so far. It is probably too late for that. Thunder... I should drift away from but not that far, yet.

[Dr Positivity]

Interested to see what Dunn's rookie season ends up foreshadowing for him. There's no masking that as a scorer his season was an atrocity, but his combo of 2.1 stl, 1.0 blk, 4.8 ast, 2.4 turnovers is very good for his draft class. His steal and block combined is probably the most impressive for a 2016 draft pick (Siakam's is 1.1 stl, 1.9 blk per 36). It doesn't mean he's the best defender (I actually would be surprised if any are playing better D than Poeltl, though I say that as a biased Raptors fan) but he's up there. For passing stats only Brogdon's look better. So is being a horrible scorer, but a better defender and passer than some of these players like Hield, Murray, Ingram an OK start? BPM seems to think so, he actually is higher than the ROY Saric and the beforementioned players. Not only could be it be argued as OK due to valuing defense and passing as more important than taking a lot of FGAs on mediocre efficiency on any team, but you can make a case that being good at defense and passing says something about you as a player that could be predictive of future success - effort, instincts, etc. On the other hand, a duck could be a duck and his inability to score could just mean he's a future bust I guess

[Crow]

82games.com data says Dunn allows 53% eFG to his matchups and is massively outscored by them.


Him on court offensive efficiency dips some, team own eFG% and assisted basket % down significantly. ORPM estimates him as having worst overall offensive impact of any PG in league. Probably the least sensible choice for an "alternative" to Rubio imaginable.

His own shooting is just one of several major problems.

DRPM estimates him as neutral on defense. The box score strength offset by the lousy shot defense. BPM uses and provides the most generic, least individual based, very imprecise or reliable shot defense information.

He will probably get better but he starts off very low. Part of the case for him in the draft was that he was "ready".

[shadow]

ORPM estimates him as having worst overall offensive impact of any PG in league.

There are actually 9 PGs with a worse ORPM. I think you might have forgotten to navigate to the 3rd page for PGs on ESPN. He's still obviously pretty terrible, but not technically the worst.

[Crow]

What you say appears true now; but it sure looked like he was last when I sorted the list an hour or two ago. Thanks for the correction.

[Crow]

Wiggins estimated at 3rd worst in league on DRPM for SFs. Towns as worst C on the same. LaVine "only" 11th worst at PG estimate.

Chris Dunn and Tyus Jones estimated equal on DRPM (and only slightly negative).

[jgoldstein34]

It may not be getting better anytime soon: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19452522

[Crow]

Rose was the highest paid, around -2 on RPM PG last season. The others in that range got paid the minimum to $5million, $10 mil. and $15 mil. Using RPM as measuring the insider's market is complete chaos on pricing / return value. Schroeder was in this group. Who gives him $20 mil. / yr? Someone who doesn't care about / use RPM. What does Rose get? What should he get? $8-10 mil.? Less? Probably gets Rondo level, another player in this performance range. Gifted $15 mil. / yr by brilliant insiders.

[jgoldstein34]

I think he should get a minimum to $5 million, he'll probably get $10-12 million though out of hope he'll somehow magically become an MVP again.

[jgoldstein34]

One thing to consider about Rose, he is a valuable commodity in terms of jersey/ticket sales and popularity. As far as he's fallen, his jersey was the #12 best selling in 2016-17. He has value outside of on court production that is important to remember when he gets his next contract and the amount he gets paid makes no sense from a basketball perspective.

[JoshEngleman]

One thing to consider about Rose, he is a valuable commodity in terms of jersey/ticket sales and popularity. As far as he's fallen, his jersey was the #12 best selling in 2016-17. He has value outside of on court production that is important to remember when he gets his next contract and the amount he gets paid makes no sense from a basketball perspective.

While this is a good point, I assume that's solely because of playing in NY. I wouldn't expect the Derrick Rose T-wolves jersey to be flying off of the shelves.