APBRmetrics

Hello everyone, looking for some advice for my website, I have a set of excel data that is literally raw I would like to put up a sort of tool that people can use as a preview to the work I do.

By the way most of the stuff I look into relates to European basketball and specifically to Turkish Basketball...

If you have any advice on what sort of advanced analytics or metrics I should share please feel free to comment.

I mostly consult teams, coaches and players based on video analytics or box score stats but over the last 2 years have been evolving more around advanced statistics formulas and metrics the issue I face is that most data in Europe can't be measured with the metrics and stats formulas that apply in the NBA or NCAA... any advice therefore is really highly appreciated...

Dean, has been a contact I rely on usually but with the new role at trumedia and the SSAC16 just passed he has his hands full

Plus any perspective I can get is great to look into...

Thanks already for atleast reading my post...

I see your site http://advanceprobasketball.com/ though I'd need to apply a translation tool to read it or you might consider translating your best work to English if you wish to have it read and discussed I the U.S.

Conceptually it would seem quite possible to apply the approach of WinShares, PER, BPM, DRE, RPM, etc. to European data. The league data may vary and affect certain league average values in the formulas but the approach can be the same. I noticed basketball-reference has not tackled any of this in their public data set. I think a few analysts may have though to facilitate their work on international to NBA translations (Kevin Pelton, Layne Vashro, etc.) Perhaps they will have advice or could provide assistance.

Crow wrote:I see your site http://advanceprobasketball.com/

Conceptually it would seem quite possible to apply the approach of WinShares, PER, BPM, DRE, RPM, etc. to European data. The league data may vary and affect certain league average values in the formulas but the approach can be the same. I noticed basketball-reference has not tackled any of this in their public data set. I think a few analysts may have though to facilitate their work on international to NBA translations. Perhaps they will have advice or could provide assistance.

Thanks for the response really appreciated.

I think I also need to mention that I have no skills with programming...

Luckily I have a good relationship going with the guys at RealGM and they can pass along data if I would need it but I even struggle sometimes to get data for womens basketball in Turkey...

It is such a tough landscape its unbelievable but I would really like to pave the way in Turkey...

Hopefully with the help and guidance here that can happen sooner than later...

Programming would be needed to automate the metric calculation but it could be done manually in Excel annually or say quarterly.

Draftexpress calculates PER for internationals and a range of other discrete "advanced" stats.

Jorje (in Greece) at his site hoopsstats.com used to do some work with Euroleague stats including the metric "NBA efficiency" (a simpler older metric somewhat similar to PER) and its offense - defense differential for teams. Dr. Jose Martinez in Spain is one of the Europeans most familiar with the various metrics used in NBA and in other leagues. Perhaps you could seek their work or assistance.

Crow wrote:Programming would be needed to automate the metric calculation but it could be done manually in Excel annually or say quarterly.

Draftexpress calculates PER for internationals and a range of other discrete "advanced" stats.

Jorje (in Greece) at his site hoopsstats.com used to do some work with Euroleague stats including the metric "NBA efficiency" (a simpler older metric somewhat similar to PER) and its offense - defense differential for teams. Dr. Jose Martinez in Spain is one of the Europeans most familiar with the various metrics used in NBA and in other leagues. Perhaps you could seek their work or assistance.

Hey Crow PMed you with another follow up...

Any other notes would be awesome people... appreciate the views as well from all of you...

You want some Euro and Turkish data, you want people to rely on that data to adapt known public metrics and you want them to calculate metric values of players in Europe and Turkey for you. All for free. And you consult teams...

Something's not right in this picture. Why would I do your job for you without getting anything in return?

It looks like Turkish Basketball Federation is just an another corrupt organization employed with clueless people in Turkey. Thanks to islamic, corrupt government and it's thief president.

permaximum wrote:You want some Euro and Turkish data, you want people to rely on that data to adapt known public metrics and you want them to calculate metric values of players in Europe and Turkey for you. All for free. And you consult teams...

Something's not right in this picture. Why would I do your job for you without getting anything in return?

It looks like Turkish Basketball Federation is just an another corrupt organization employed with clueless people in Turkey. Thanks to islamic, corrupt government and it's thief president.

I think you got my wrong... not once did I mention it would be for free. very naturally there is a business side to this. I am just in the mode of collecting ideas and being able to wrap things up around to by pass the Turkish Basketball Federation. By the way you have a good point that they are extremely lacking and bad as an organization but the idea I want to bring about is that with a collaborative effort there is good business that can be done.

I am just looking for the right synergy to be able to move forward with and that is why I am seeking out advice.

permaximum wrote:It looks like Turkish Basketball Federation is just an another corrupt organization employed with clueless people in Turkey. Thanks to islamic, corrupt government and it's thief president.

I don't find this line in particular, or the tone of this post in general, to be remotely appropriate for APBRmetrics.

Oh one more thing to add... I have data available... I also have advanced analytics know-how... I just need assistance, ideas, know-how on how I can get a small web based tool up on my site to help others out with certain analytics especially in Turkish... if it was not clear before, analytics is extremely new and untouched in Europe and Turkey in general due to bad data sets and lacking information... but it can be processed and just needs collaborative work to be able to be done well.

I do not want to agitate any one in commenting on the situation of the Turkish Basketball Federation, I am as frustrated as anyone in that landscape, I want to promote a solution that can be worked with and eventually a business model can be built around...

Kind Regards to everyone

Kevin Pelton wrote:

permaximum wrote:It looks like Turkish Basketball Federation is just an another corrupt organization employed with clueless people in Turkey. Thanks to islamic, corrupt government and it's thief president.

I don't find this line in particular, or the tone of this post in general, to be remotely appropriate for APBRmetrics.

You're absolutely right. I'm sorry for my tone and the irrelevant subject. I should have bit my tongue on that one.

@ermayduran

You need to be more specific. I can give you some ideas for free if you describe what do you want from us detailed enough.

Edit: It looks I got a warning for that sentence. That's fair although it has no penal sanction since I gain nothing from this account and I really don't care about it.

Kevin Pelton wrote:

permaximum wrote:It looks like Turkish Basketball Federation is just an another corrupt organization employed with clueless people in Turkey. Thanks to islamic, corrupt government and it's thief president.

I don't find this line in particular, or the tone of this post in general, to be remotely appropriate for APBRmetrics.

Agreed.

ermayduran wrote:Oh one more thing to add... I have data available... I also have advanced analytics know-how... I just need assistance, ideas, know-how on how I can get a small web based tool up on my site to help others out with certain analytics especially in Turkish... if it was not clear before, analytics is extremely new and untouched in Europe and Turkey in general due to bad data sets and lacking information... but it can be processed and just needs collaborative work to be able to be done well
I do not want to agitate any one in commenting on the situation of the Turkish Basketball Federation, I am as frustrated as anyone in that landscape, I want to promote a solution that can be worked with and eventually a business model can be built around...

I know Sports Reference has interest in expanding their euro basketball reach at some point, adding in advanced stats like Box Plus/Minus. Here's their Euroleague page currently: http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/euroleague/

Someone around here probably has the know-how on how to take a bunch of Excel data and convert it into a website, but not me....

In general, most statistics used for NCAA and NBA are applicable to any league, if you can get the raw data required. If you don't have play-by-play data, adjusted plus/minus style stats are out, but with fewer games than the NBA they probably wouldn't be that useful anyway.

DSMok1 wrote:

Kevin Pelton wrote:

permaximum wrote:It looks like Turkish Basketball Federation is just an another corrupt organization employed with clueless people in Turkey. Thanks to islamic, corrupt government and it's thief president.

I don't find this line in particular, or the tone of this post in general, to be remotely appropriate for APBRmetrics.

Agreed.

Nice. If anyone else agrees feel free to publicly announce it here so I may stop bashing any metric. Isn't that the real reason? That I started to bash the state of advanced metrics lately?

Ermayduran,

I saw your pm and responded as best I able.


Permaximum,

I am not offended by bashing the state of advanced metrics itself. I respect your critiques because they seem a product of research and thought.

In general, personal shots are generally better to avoid for that person, you, the civility of the forum and because they usually derail the legitimate debate.

Political opinion has rarely been expressed here. Probably better off staying that way.

It can be useful when forming an assessment of someone's opinion. Like removing the uncertainty.

Guys I highly appreciate all the responses.

Momentarily as mentioned I have raw boxscore data to work with in excel for most Turkish teams and am in the process of gathering data for the womens basketball too... its just the programming end I need to figure out for instance creating a small webtool that can calculate PER, WINShares, etc...

I also read about the advanced free throw analytics which was interesting it is a data set that I think I can comeby in Turkish basketball...

Thank you all for your receptiveness and kind help...