difference in ORTG in different game states

[elbicho]

Is there any data available breaking down how teams do on offensive in different game states? What I mean by game states or game situations are off of a steal, out of a dead ball, in the bonus not in the bonus. I know there is some stuff out there showing how teams after an offensive rebound but I would really like to know what difference being in the bonus makes on ORTG.

[Crow]

I recall this
http://www.amstat.org/chapters/boston/n ... hirley.pdf
which might be of some help.

There maybe be something else here or the Sloan Sports Conference or perhaps elsewhere. Can't recall anything more at the moment. Maybe someone else can.

[Crow]

more possible useful reading

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=192&hilit=+offensive+rating+

http://www.muevetebasket.es/cont.php?id=500

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp ... iation.pdf

[Joe_M543]

Not ORTG but nbawowy.com has prior action points per shot prior action stats for teams and players.

[Crow]

I think this is what you are referring to. if some other moderator could format it? (Thanks) This still confuses me.

• Rank Team FGM/FTM Team DRB Team ORB Team STL Team TOV Team FOUL Team TIME
  1 Spurs 52.90% Heat 57.80% Trail Blazers 57.90% Nuggets 69.40% Nuggets 56.60% Clippers 53.30% Spurs 55.40%
  2 Rockets 51.80% Thunder 54.40% Hawks 57.80% Clippers 67.70% Rockets 55.30% Warriors 53.10% Heat 53.30%
  3 Heat 51.70% Hawks 54.30% Hornets 57.60% Thunder 67.60% Lakers 53.30% Magic 52.80% Lakers 50.40%
  4 Lakers 50.60% Spurs 54.00% Raptors 57.20% Hawks 65.10% 76ers 52.70% Thunder 52.80% Thunder 49.50%
  5 Thunder 50.20% Warriors 52.90% Spurs 56.80% Raptors 65.10% Clippers 52.50% Rockets 51.80% Hawks 49.10%
  6 Mavericks 49.70% Clippers 52.60% Clippers 56.30% Heat 64.80% Heat 52.20% Heat 51.80% Knicks 48.20%
  7 Hawks 49.10% Rockets 52.50% Nuggets 56.10% Spurs 63.40% Magic 51.80% Cavaliers 50.00% Mavericks 48.20%
  8 Clippers 48.60% Nuggets 52.40% Heat 55.40% 76ers 63.20% Thunder 50.00% Celtics 50.00% Nets 47.30%
  9 Knicks 48.30% Nets 52.20% Knicks 55.40% Kings 62.90% Hawks 49.50% Knicks 50.00% Wizards 47.20%
  10 Trail Blazers 48.30% Mavericks 52.00% Jazz 55.30% Knicks 62.70% Trail Blazers 48.90% Spurs 49.80% Magic 47.00%
  11 Warriors 47.90% Lakers 51.80% Cavaliers 54.50% Warriors 62.60% Spurs 48.50% Bulls 49.80% Pacers 47.00%
  12 Celtics 47.70% Hornets 51.40% Magic 54.20% Suns 62.10% Pistons 48.30% Nets 49.30% Celtics 46.50%
  13 Nuggets 47.50% Celtics 51.30% Thunder 53.90% Trail Blazers 61.70% Mavericks 48.20% Nuggets 48.80% Rockets 46.40%
  14 Suns 47.30% Knicks 51.10% Rockets 53.80% Rockets 61.50% Raptors 47.90% Hawks 48.80% Grizzlies 46.10%
  15 Kings 46.80% Kings 51.00% Pistons 53.40% Bucks 61.30% Cavaliers 47.90% Trail Blazers 48.70% 76ers 46.10%
  16 Raptors 46.50% Pistons 50.80% Warriors 53.30% Grizzlies 61.20% Wizards 47.60% Pistons 48.60% Jazz 45.50%
  17 Hornets 46.00% Magic 50.70% Lakers 53.20% Timberwolves 60.80% Bucks 46.80% Mavericks 48.20% Clippers 45.30%
  18 Jazz 46.00% Jazz 49.50% Celtics 52.80% Nets 60.80% Celtics 46.60% Grizzlies 48.20% Kings 44.10%
  19 Nets 45.90% Grizzlies 49.20% Kings 52.70% Pistons 60.70% Knicks 46.00% Pacers 48.00% Bucks 43.90%
  20 Bulls 45.40% Bobcats 49.10% Timberwolves 52.60% Pacers 60.70% Suns 44.50% Raptors 47.60% Warriors 43.40%
  21 76ers 45.30% Bucks 48.80% 76ers 52.50% Lakers 60.50% Nets 44.40% Bucks 47.50% Trail Blazers 43.10%
  22 Magic 45.30% Trail Blazers 48.50% Bucks 52.00% Celtics 60.40% Hornets 43.40% Jazz 46.80% Pistons 42.90%
  23 Pacers 45.10% Suns 48.30% Pacers 50.90% Hornets 59.00% Jazz 43.20% Timberwolves 46.70% Nuggets 42.60%
  24 Wizards 45.10% Cavaliers 48.20% Suns 50.80% Cavaliers 58.20% Pacers 43.00% 76ers 45.40% Cavaliers 41.70%
  25 Bucks 44.60% Wizards 48.00% Bulls 50.80% Jazz 57.90% Timberwolves 42.70% Hornets 44.40% Raptors 41.60%
  26 Cavaliers 44.30% 76ers 47.80% Wizards 50.70% Mavericks 57.40% Bulls 42.40% Wizards 43.10% Bulls 41.30%
  27 Grizzlies 44.30% Pacers 47.80% Nets 50.40% Wizards 57.20% Kings 39.10% Lakers 43.00% Hornets 41.30%
  28 Pistons 43.80% Timberwolves 47.20% Grizzlies 50.10% Bulls 56.60% Warriors 36.80% Kings 42.30% Bobcats 40.50%
  29 Timberwolves 43.60% Raptors 46.50% Bobcats 49.70% Magic 56.10% Grizzlies 36.60% Suns 39.00% Timberwolves 40.00%
  30 Bobcats 43.10% Bulls 45.20% Mavericks 49.50% Bobcats 55.70% Bobcats 35.80% Bobcats 38.00% Suns 39.00%
  AVG 47.09% 50.58% 53.59% 61.48% 46.75% 47.92% 45.46%
  Rank Team FGM/FTM Team DRB Team ORB Team STL Team TOV Team FOUL Team TIME

[Mike G]

I don't know what these numbers mean. I've removed excess zeroes, converted team names to 3-letter abbrevs, and % to decimals.

Code: Select all

Rk    Tm  FGM/FTM   Tm   DRB    Tm    ORB    Tm    STL    Tm    TOV    Tm   FOUL    Tm   TIME
1     SAS  .529    Mia  .578    Por  .579    Den  .694    Den  .566    LAC  .533    SAS  .554
2     Hou  .518    Okl  .544    Atl  .578    LAC  .677    Hou  .553    GSW  .531    Mia  .533
3     Mia  .517    Atl  .543    NOH  .576    Okl  .676    LAL  .533    Orl  .528    LAL  .504
4     LAL  .506    SAS  .540    Tor  .572    Atl  .651    Phl  .527    Okl  .528    Okl  .495
5     Okl  .502    GSW  .529    SAS  .568    Tor  .651    LAC  .525    Hou  .518    Atl  .491

6     Dal  .497    LAC  .526    LAC  .563    Mia  .648    Mia  .522    Mia  .518    NYK  .482
7     Atl  .491    Hou  .525    Den  .561    SAS  .634    Orl  .518    Cle  .500    Dal  .482
8     LAC  .486    Den  .524    Mia  .554    Phl  .632    Okl  .500    Bos  .500    Brk  .473
9     NYK  .483    Brk  .522    NYK  .554    Sac  .629    Atl  .495    NYK  .500    Was  .472
10    Por  .483    Dal  .520    Uta  .553    NYK  .627    Por  .489    SAS  .498    Orl  .470

11    GSW  .479    LAL  .518    Cle  .545    GSW  .626    SAS  .485    Chi  .498    Ind  .470
12    Bos  .477    NOH  .514    Orl  .542    Phx  .621    Det  .483    Brk  .493    Bos  .465
13    Den  .475    Bos  .513    Okl  .539    Por  .617    Dal  .482    Den  .488    Hou  .464
14    Phx  .473    NYK  .511    Hou  .538    Hou  .615    Tor  .479    Atl  .488    Mem  .461
15    Sac  .468    Sac  .510    Det  .534    Mil  .613    Cle  .479    Por  .487    Phl  .461

16    Tor  .465    Det  .508    GSW  .533    Mem  .612    Was  .476    Det  .486    Uta  .455
17    NOH  .460    Orl  .507    LAL  .532    Min  .608    Mil  .468    Dal  .482    LAC  .453
18    Uta  .460    Uta  .495    Bos  .528    Brk  .608    Bos  .466    Mem  .482    Sac  .441
19    Brk  .459    Mem  .492    Sac  .527    Det  .607    NYK  .460    Ind  .480    Mil  .439
20    Chi  .454    Cha  .491    Min  .526    Ind  .607    Phx  .445    Tor  .476    GSW  .434

21    Phl  .453    Mil  .488    Phl  .525    LAL  .605    Brk  .444    Mil  .475    Por  .431
22    Orl  .453    Por  .485    Mil  .520    Bos  .604    NOH  .434    Uta  .468    Det  .429
23    Ind  .451    Phx  .483    Ind  .509    NOH  .590    Uta  .432    Min  .467    Den  .426
24    Was  .451    Cle  .482    Phx  .508    Cle  .582    Ind  .430    Phl  .454    Cle  .417
25    Mil  .446    Was  .480    Chi  .508    Uta  .579    Min  .427    NOH  .444    Tor  .416

26    Cle  .443    Phl  .478    Was  .507    Dal  .574    Chi  .424    Was  .431    Chi  .413
27    Mem  .443    Ind  .478    Brk  .504    Was  .572    Sac  .391    LAL  .430    NOH  .413
28    Det  .438    Min  .472    Mem  .501    Chi  .566    GSW  .368    Sac  .423    Cha  .405
29    Min  .436    Tor  .465    Cha  .497    Orl  .561    Mem  .366    Phx  .390    Min  .400
30    Cha  .431    Chi  .452    Dal  .495    Cha  .557    Cha  .358    Cha  .380    Phx  .390

Avg        .471         .506         .536         .615         .468         .479         .455
  

[PD123]

I don't know what these numbers mean.

It seems to be team eFG% from nbawowwy ranked and sorted by the prior event.

[Mike G]

Ah, sure.
And then TOV are non-steal turnovers -- inbounds plays, like after a made shot?
I'm very surprised OReb don't lead to higher % shots. Maybe there are also lots of FT after OReb?
League eFG% was .496 this year. For most of these states, it's significantly better or worse than that.

[Crow]

Thanks much Mike for the formatting assist.

Various stat measures do show that interior shooting in general except for transition layups is not that efficient and offensive rebounds do not enhance the efficiency. Thus the still occasionally lamented dearth of post play is not to be heavily lamented logically today. That feeling made more sense before the 3 pt era gave offenses a shot that was almost as efficient and easier to get and far better than the average mid to long-range 2.

[Mike G]

I don't know about this. As I mentioned above, an offensive rebound is often close to the basket. A player with the ball close to the basket is often fouled, rather than allowed the easy layup.

Last season, Reggie Evans scored 125 FG and shot 222 FTA. That's like 100-120 trips to the FT line. Was he putting the ball on the floor and driving to the basket when he got fouled? He had 260 OReb and 261 FGA.

Bad example, I guess, in that Evans' FT% of .509 hardly raises his TS%. I'd like to see league TS% for all these "states". Better yet, ORtg.

[Crow]

I'd like to see league TS% for all these "states". Better yet, ORtg.

Definitely agree with you about that. eFG% is not the full story. I commented on the shooting part of it but yeah overall efficiency of plays is the big picture that needs different data to address.


But as I noted elsewhere recently, league averages for FT/FGA and FTAs are at all-time lows, being subject to a long-term trend down and a pretty sharp drop off the last 2 seasons.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... stats.html


At the rim FGAs and FG%s have bounced around in recent years, up somewhat last season over the ones immediately previous but were better in even earlier years.

http://www.hoopdata.com/teamshotlocs.as ... 13&type=pg

This data is hard to use though, not knowing how much of the FGAs and FGs made were on fastbreak vs what is traditionally considered post play.