The debut and popularization of BPM

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DSMok1
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by DSMok1 »

Box Plus/Minus for the playoffs and the NCAAs has been launched.

Here are the updates to the About BPM page:

Updates
Box Plus/Minus Version 1.1: January 7, 2015:


This was a bug fix update to address a couple of issues. The most significant change is to correct the weighting scheme used in the regression. The original BPM regression used a sqrt(Poss) weighting, which was incorrect. This version corrects the scheme to a number of possessions weighting system, with an additional correction to account for the effect of the prior on the RAPM values.

This fix generally increases the spread in the BPM values slightly, with the best players getting a bump in the +0.5 range, while below average players saw a marginal reduction in their BPM values.

This fix also adjusted the values slightly, causing efficiency and blocks to be valued somewhat more highly and turnovers to be somewhat worse. Centers and other players with high shooting efficiency and blocks were helped the most by those tweaks (such as Anthony Davis), and players with high usage and relatively low efficiency (like Russell Westbrook) were hurt. The overall BPM gap between those helped the most and hurt the most was about 1.0. For example: 2014 Russell Westbrook saw his BPM drop by 0.2, but 2014 Anthony Davis saw his BPM increase by 0.8.

The other bug fixes were minor issues with the regression logic deriving the Offense/Defense split coefficients. There were two small bugs in the code that do not effect the overall BPM values, but will tweak the OBPM/DBPM split slightly. The effects of these corrections are small.

Comparison of the coefficients:

BPM:

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╔═════════╦══════════════════════╦════════════════╦═════════════════╦═════════════╦════════════╗
║ Coeff.  ║        Term          ║ BPM 1.1 Value  ║ Original Value  ║ Difference  ║ Percentage ║
╠═════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════╬═════════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ a       ║ Regr. MPG            ║ 0.123391       ║ 0.120051        ║ 0.0033      ║ 2.8%       ║
║ b       ║ ORB%                 ║ 0.119597       ║ 0.137600        ║ -0.0180     ║ -13.1%     ║
║ c       ║ DRB%                 ║ -0.151287      ║ -0.151938       ║ 0.0007      ║ -0.4%      ║
║ d       ║ STL%                 ║ 1.255644       ║ 1.144182        ║ 0.1115      ║ 9.7%       ║
║ e       ║ BLK%                 ║ 0.531838       ║ 0.449468        ║ 0.0824      ║ 18.3%      ║
║ f       ║ AST%                 ║ -0.305868      ║ -0.310548       ║ 0.0047      ║ -1.5%      ║
║ g       ║ TO%*USG%             ║ 0.921292       ║ 0.723784        ║ 0.1975      ║ 27.3%      ║
║ h       ║ Scoring              ║ 0.711217       ║ 0.610605        ║ 0.1006      ║ 16.5%      ║
║ i       ║   AST Interaction    ║ 0.017022       ║ 0.019936        ║ -0.0029     ║ -14.6%     ║
║ j       ║   3PAr Interaction   ║ 0.297639       ║ 0.380536        ║ -0.0829     ║ -21.8%     ║
║ k       ║   Threshold Scoring  ║ 0.213485       ║ 0.269667        ║ -0.0562     ║            ║
║ l       ║ sqrt(AST%*TRB%)      ║ 0.725930       ║ 0.691501        ║ 0.0344      ║ 5.0%       ║
╚═════════╩══════════════════════╩════════════════╩═════════════════╩═════════════╩════════════╝
OBPM/DBPM Split:

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╔═════════╦══════════════════════╦════════════════════╦═════════════════╦═════════════╦════════════╗
║ Coeff.  ║        Term          ║ O/D BPM 1.1 Value  ║ Original Value  ║ Difference  ║ Percentage ║
╠═════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════════╬═════════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ a       ║ Regr. MPG            ║ 0.064448           ║ 0.059270        ║ 0.005178    ║ 8.7%       ║
║ b       ║ ORB%                 ║ 0.211125           ║ 0.197487        ║ 0.013638    ║ 6.9%       ║
║ c       ║ DRB%                 ║ -0.107545          ║ -0.102144       ║ -0.005401   ║ 5.3%       ║
║ d       ║ STL%                 ║ 0.346513           ║ 0.322082        ║ 0.024431    ║ 7.6%       ║
║ e       ║ BLK%                 ║ -0.052476          ║ -0.062684       ║ 0.010208    ║ -16.3%     ║
║ f       ║ AST%                 ║ -0.041787          ║ -0.088460       ║ 0.046673    ║ -52.8%     ║
║ g       ║ TO%*USG%             ║ 0.932965           ║ 0.798831        ║ 0.134134    ║ 16.8%      ║
║ h       ║ Scoring              ║ 0.687359           ║ 0.606303        ║ 0.081056    ║ 13.4%      ║
║ i       ║   AST Interaction    ║ 0.007952           ║ 0.011822        ║ -0.003870   ║ -32.7%     ║
║ j       ║   3PAr Interaction   ║ 0.374706           ║ 0.430225        ║ -0.055519   ║ -12.9%     ║
║ k       ║   Threshold Scoring  ║ -0.181891          ║ -0.126574       ║ -0.055317   ║            ║
║ l       ║ sqrt(AST%*TRB%)      ║ 0.239862           ║ 0.262148        ║ -0.022286   ║ -8.5%      ║
╚═════════╩══════════════════════╩════════════════════╩═════════════════╩═════════════╩════════════╝
This update also includes a revision to how VORP is handled for partial seasons. Previously, partial seasons would show the player's production extrapolated to the full 82 game season–VORP was behaving more as a rate stat. That has now been changed, so that VORP will now act as a counting stat over the season, with each 1 point being equal to 1 point of season-end team point differential (per 82 games).

This was critical also for handling playoff VORP, which has been put on the same scale: [BPM – (-2.0)] * (% of minutes played)*(team games/82).

Playoff Box Plus/Minus and VORP

Box Plus/Minus for the playoffs is calculated the same way as BPM for the regular season, which a few additions to derive an appropriate team efficiency differential.

The playoff team efficiency, which is used in the team adjustment portion of the BPM calculation, is derived as follows:

Use playoff minutes distribution for each team along with each player's regular season BPM value to generate a "playoff team strength." In general, playoff rotations are shortened, so teams are stronger than in the regular season. If a player had fewer than 200 minutes of regular season play on the given team, they were assumed to be replacement level for this calculation.
Count games played against each opponent in the playoffs.
Strength of Schedule is the average opponent team rating for the duration of the playoffs.
Add actual playoff efficiency differential to the calculated strength of schedule to get the adjusted team efficiency differential used in the BPM calculation.

As an example, in 2013-2014 San Antonio won the title. They went through 7 games of Dallas (derived strength +4.1), 5 games of Portland (+6.5), 6 games of Oklahoma City (+10.5), and 5 games of Miami (+6.9), so their average strength of schedule was +6.9. Their raw efficiency differential was +10.0 in the playoffs, so their overall adjusted efficiency differential was a spectacular +16.9. That is the same scale as regular season efficiency differential–the Spurs were really dominant.

(This is reminiscent of Hollinger's playoff ratings. The 2001 Lakers had a playoff adjusted efficiency differential of +20.4 by this method.)

The top 10 playoff BPMs, minimum 500 minutes played in the playoffs:

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╔═════╦═══════╦══════╦══════════════════════╦══════╗
║ Rk  ║ Year  ║ Tm   ║       Player         ║ BPM  ║
╠═════╬═══════╬══════╬══════════════════════╬══════╣
║  1  ║ 2009  ║ CLE  ║ LeBron James         ║ 18.2 ║
║  2  ║ 1977  ║ LAL  ║ Kareem Abdul-Jabbar  ║ 14.8 ║
║  3  ║ 1990  ║ CHI  ║ Michael Jordan       ║ 14.3 ║
║  4  ║ 1991  ║ CHI  ║ Michael Jordan       ║ 13.8 ║
║  5  ║ 1989  ║ CHI  ║ Michael Jordan       ║ 12.8 ║
║  6  ║ 1976  ║ NYA  ║ Julius Erving        ║ 12.5 ║
║  7  ║ 2008  ║ NOH  ║ Chris Paul           ║ 12.2 ║
║  8  ║ 1991  ║ PHI  ║ Charles Barkley      ║ 11.8 ║
║  9  ║ 1975  ║ INA  ║ George McGinnis      ║ 11.6 ║
║ 10  ║ 2003  ║ SAS  ║ Tim Duncan           ║ 11.6 ║
╚═════╩═══════╩══════╩══════════════════════╩══════╝
LeBron was transcendent in 2009.

Playoff VORP is calculated the same way as regular season VORP, but based on the playoff BPM values calculated above. Be aware–players on teams that played more games will have higher VORP values. A team that swept several rounds may play several games fewer than a team that was taken to seven games a couple of times.

College Basketball Box Plus/Minus

Box Plus/Minus for college basketball is calculated using the same coefficients derived for the NBA. While it may be argued that college basketball is somewhat different, there is no easy way to derive BPM coefficients specifically for college basketball, so the NBA coefficients will have to suffice. A rebound is still a rebound... The coefficient that could be the most questionable would be the MPG coefficient, because it is unclear if minutes distribution at the college level is based upon the same criteria as at the pro level, and the length and pace of games is different. Until further information becomes available, all coefficients have been used as-is.

VORP, on the other hand, does not make sense for college basketball. VORP is derived based on salaries, and in a consistent market, and is primarily useful in relation to evaluating salaries. In college, on the other hand, every school and conference has widely disparate situations, and since there are no salaries, their is neither a rational method nor strong need for deriving or using VORP.

Therefore, BPM will be shown alone for college basketball.

Data for college basketball is currently available only back to the 2011 season. Here are the top 10 seasons in the database, minimum 500 minutes played.

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╔═════╦═══════╦═════════════════╦══════════════════════╦═══════╦═══════╦══════╗
║ Rk  ║ Year  ║      Team       ║       Player         ║ BPM   ║ OBPM  ║ DBPM ║
╠═════╬═══════╬═════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═══════╬═══════╬══════╣
║  1  ║ 2012  ║ Kentucky        ║ Anthony Davis        ║ 18.7  ║ 7.8   ║ 10.9 ║
║  2  ║ 2013  ║ Indiana         ║ Victor Oladipo       ║ 17.0  ║ 9.7   ║ 7.3  ║
║  3  ║ 2013  ║ Louisville      ║ Gorgui Dieng         ║ 15.0  ║ 4.0   ║ 11.0 ║
║  4  ║ 2014  ║ Kansas          ║ Joel Embiid          ║ 14.9  ║ 4.7   ║ 10.2 ║
║  5  ║ 2014  ║ Kentucky        ║ Willie Cauley-Stein  ║ 14.9  ║ 4.1   ║ 10.8 ║
║  6  ║ 2012  ║ Marquette       ║ Jae Crowder          ║ 14.7  ║ 8.8   ║ 5.9  ║
║  7  ║ 2013  ║ Kentucky        ║ Nerlens Noel         ║ 14.6  ║ 2.9   ║ 11.7 ║
║  8  ║ 2012  ║ Kansas          ║ Jeff Withey          ║ 13.8  ║ 2.7   ║ 11.1 ║
║  9  ║ 2011  ║ Michigan State  ║ Draymond Green       ║ 13.6  ║ 6.3   ║ 7.3  ║
║ 10  ║ 2013  ║ Gonzaga         ║ Mike Hart            ║ 13.5  ║ 7.9   ║ 5.6  ║
╚═════╩═══════╩═════════════════╩══════════════════════╩═══════╩═══════╩══════╝
A few notes on BPM for college basketball:

Big men tend to rank more highly than guards–it appears that a big man can dominate on defense more in college than in the NBA. In college, there are some ridiculous block rates for elite centers. Are they overrated, or does this reflect reality? There is no easy way to know for sure.
Beware of partial season results. Because of imbalanced schedules, with many easy games early in the season for top teams, players who compile great stats early in the season (along with their whole team) but then get hurt and miss conference play, where their teammates' stats drop down, will often see inflated BPM numbers because their numbers look so much better than their teammates.
Beware of crazy outliers. Mike Hart, above, is one. A "quintessential glue guy", he never shot the ball at all, but made the few shots he did shoot. He never, ever turned the ball over, either, but rebounded, passed, got a lot of steals…. His numbers are stretching the interaction terms in BPM past their breaking point, particularly on offense. He had just enough minutes to qualify for the list above.


---

This bugfix addresses the iissue found earlier in this thread, where I was weighting the regression by sqrt(possessions) rather than by simply possessions.
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colts18
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by colts18 »

Dsmok,

1. How is MPG taken into account for playoffs?

2. Did you look into testing new variables for the model?

LeBron is 0.1 VORP from passing MJ in playoff VORP and less than 6 away in Regular season. Do you think the stat is biased because LeBron is in sample while MJ is not?
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by DSMok1 »

colts18 wrote:Dsmok,

1. How is MPG taken into account for playoffs?

2. Did you look into testing new variables for the model?

LeBron is 0.1 VORP from passing MJ in playoff VORP and less than 6 away in Regular season. Do you think the stat is biased because LeBron is in sample while MJ is not?
1. Same as regular season. Regressed with 4 games of 0 MPG.

2. I looked at quite a few more things, but didn't get anything that would help. Eventually I decided to put off any further experimentation to the off season and just do the bugfix for now.

It is possible that the stat is biased by LeBron being in sample. Hopefully some additional testing will show for certain whether BPM fits as well historically as in the sample. I don't think this is a big issue from what I have seen. Basically, BPM thinks LeBron was maybe slightly better than MJ (when you include his Wizard years) and is already approaching MJ in minutes, both in regular season and playoffs.
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Mike G
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by Mike G »

Did Jordan's VORP numbers receive a major boost? I had noticed he and Karl Malone tied at #1 in RS, somewhere around 97 I think. Now he's ahead 104.4-102.5 . His BPM also seem to be higher than I recall.
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by Mike G »

Just adding Regular Season (RS) and Playoff (PO) VORP, you get this Top 50 -- since 1974 and NBA only:

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VORP    player           RS    PO       VORP    player         RS    PO
122.7  Michael Jordan  104.4  18.3      55.9   Ben Wallace    47.6   8.3
116.8  LeBron James     98.6  18.2      55.9   Vince Carter   53.0   2.9
110.1  Karl Malone     102.5   7.6      55.6   Shawn Marion   52.1   3.5
103.2  Charles Barkley  93.5   9.7      52.5   Pau Gasol      47.3   5.2
99.8   Kevin Garnett    93.6   6.2      52.4   Tracy McGrady  50.6   1.8

98.6   Tim Duncan       85.0  13.6      51.5   Larry Nance    47.9   3.6
98.0 Kareem AbdulJabbar 86.0  12.0      51.2   Horace Grant   44.4   6.8
95.1   Magic Johnson    77.4  17.7      51.2   Manu Ginobili  43.4   7.8
91.6   Larry Bird       79.7  11.9      49.5   Jeff Hornacek  43.2   6.3
88.2   David Robinson   80.9   7.3      49.4   Vlade Divac    45.3   4.1

88.2   Hakeem Olajuwon  77.1  11.1      49.1   Chris Webber   45.9   3.2
88.1   Jason Kidd       78.2   9.9      48.3   Eddie Jones    45.1   3.2
86.3   Shaquille O'Neal 74.0  12.3      48.1   Allen Iverson  44.1   4.0
84.3   Clyde Drexler    75.6   8.7      47.2   Adrian Dantley 44.0   3.2
83.8   Kobe Bryant      72.3  11.5      47.1   Moses Malone   43.3   3.8

83.3   Scottie Pippen   69.6  13.7      46.6   Elton Brand    45.3   1.3
72.8   John Stockton    65.9   6.9      46.0 Chauncey Billups 37.6   8.4
70.2   Dirk Nowitzki    63.5   6.7      45.5   Bob Lanier     41.9   3.6
68.8   Reggie Miller    63.2   5.6      45.2   Isiah Thomas   37.5   7.7
67.2   Gary Payton      63.0   4.2      45.2   Robert Parish  41.5   3.7

66.9   Paul Pierce      61.5   5.4      44.6 Andrei Kirilenko 42.4   2.2
64.0   Ray Allen        58.1   5.9      44.1   Grant Hill     42.5   1.6
63.4   Dwyane Wade      54.5   8.9      44.0  Rasheed Wallace 37.5   6.5
61.6   Chris Paul       57.5   4.1      43.9   Jack Sikma     42.0   1.9
59.2   Julius Erving    51.6   7.6      43.7   Patrick Ewing  40.9   2.8
Missing the cut: 'Nique, Adams, Deke, Horry, Blaylock, Rodman, Mullin, Majerle, Iguodala, Gilmore, Durant, T Porter, McHale, Battier, Dwight, Odom, Cheeks, Hawkins, Oakley, A Robertson, English, Laimbeer, Unseld, B Davis, R Lewis, Camby, Moncrief, Buck, Det, Marq J, B Jones, R Harper, Terry, T Hardaway, Worthy, Lever, Nash... #87
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by DSMok1 »

Mike G wrote:Did Jordan's VORP numbers receive a major boost? I had noticed he and Karl Malone tied at #1 in RS, somewhere around 97 I think. Now he's ahead 104.4-102.5 . His BPM also seem to be higher than I recall.
The top end of BPM is a bit higher across the board. Players with higher peaks will benefit a bit from the changes.
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Mike G
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by Mike G »

From the top 200 (RegSea) VORP players, leaders in % of VORP in playoffs, and PO - RS BPM.

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po%       VORP          RS    PO      po-rs    BPM            RS   PO
.233   Robert Horry    32.0   9.7      4.2   Isiah Thomas*   2.2   6.4
.198   Byron Scott     18.6   4.6      4.0   Baron Davis     2.7   6.7
.193   James Worthy*   28.5   6.8      3.4   Derrick Coleman 1.3   4.7
.186   Magic Johnson*  77.4  17.7      3.3   Walt Frazier*   4.1   7.4
.183  Chauncey Billups 37.6   8.4      2.8   Rajon Rondo     2.2   5.0
.170   Isiah Thomas*   37.5   7.7      2.8   Steve Francis   3.2   6.0
.164   Scottie Pippen* 69.6  13.7      2.6   Bernard King*   1.7   4.3
.159   Elvin Hayes*    23.3   4.4      2.5   Randy Smith     0.9   3.4
.156   LeBron James    98.6  18.2      2.2  Jason Richardson 1.4   3.6
.152   Manu Ginobili   43.4   7.8      2.2  Hakeem Olajuwon* 4.9   7.1
.149  Michael Jordan* 104.4  18.3      2.1   Robert Horry    2.7   4.8
.148   Ben Wallace     47.6   8.3      2.0   Michael Jordan* 8.1  10.1
.148   Dennis Johnson* 23.6   4.1      2.0   Shawn Kemp      1.7   3.7
.148   Rasheed Wallace 37.5   6.5      1.9   Elvin Hayes*    0.9   2.8
.143  Shaquille O'Neal 74.0  12.3      1.9 Anfernee Hardaway 2.6   4.5
.140   Dwyane Wade     54.5   8.9      1.9   Rick Barry*     3.2   5.1
.140   Kevin McHale*   33.9   5.5      1.7  Chauncey Billups 2.5   4.2
.139 Russell Westbrook 24.1   3.9      1.7   Ron Harper      2.1   3.8
.138   Tim Duncan      85.0  13.6      1.7   Hersey Hawkins  2.4   4.1
.137   Kobe Bryant     72.3  11.5      1.6   Gus Williams    1.9   3.5
.135   Wes Unseld*     32.8   5.1      1.5 Russell Westbrook 3.9   5.4
.133   Horace Grant    44.4   6.8      1.5   Deron Williams  1.7   3.2
.130   Larry Bird*     79.7  11.9      1.5   James Posey     1.2   2.7
.130   Dave Cowens*    26.2   3.9      1.5   Dwight Howard   2.8   4.3
.129   Deron Williams  22.3   3.3      1.5   Tracy McGrady   4.6   6.1
On the left are mostly players who moved into dynastic situations. Some of these are also on the right, but others have just excelled in the playoff minutes they got.
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by Mike G »

If we multiply playoff VORP by various integers, add it to RS totals, and scale everyone's resultant total to the original sum -- 7682.3 VORP among 200 players -- we get these alternate rankings:

Code: Select all

PO *2     vorp        PO *3   vorp        PO *5   vorp        PO *8   vorp
Jordan    129.7      Jordan   135.7      Jordan   145.4      Jordan   156.0
LeBron    124.2      LeBron   130.5      LeBron   140.7      LeBron   151.9
K Malone  108.3      Magic    111.2      Magic    123.1      Magic    136.2
Barkley   103.9      Duncan   107.2      Duncan   113.5      Duncan   120.5
Magic     103.8      K Malone 106.8      Kareem   108.3      Kareem   113.2
Duncan    103.2      Barkley  104.5      Barkley  105.4      Pippen   111.5
Kareem    101.2      Kareem   103.9      K Malone 104.3      Bird     108.8
Garnett    97.5      Bird      98.3      Bird     103.3      Shaq     107.2
Bird       95.2      Garnett   95.6      Pippen   102.5      Barkley  106.4
Olajuwon   91.4      Shaq      94.5      Shaq     100.5      Olajuwon 103.2

Shaq       90.7      Pippen    94.3      Olajuwon  98.4      Kobe     102.2
Kidd       90.2      Olajuwon  94.1      Kobe      96.3      K Malone 101.6
Pippen     89.2      Kidd      91.9      Kidd      94.8      Kidd      97.9
Robinson   87.9      Kobe      91.0      Garnett   92.5      Drexler   90.3
Kobe       87.7      Robinson  87.6      Drexler   88.4      Garnett   89.1
Drexler    85.6      Drexler   86.6      Robinson  87.1      Robinson  86.6
Stockton   73.3      Stockton  73.8      Stockton  74.5      Wade      78.2
Dirk       70.7      Dirk      71.2      Wade      73.5      Stockton  75.3
Reggie     68.4      Wade      69.2      Dirk      72.0      Dirk      72.8
Wade       66.5      Reggie    68.2      Reggie    67.7      B Wallace 70.9

Pierce     66.5      Pierce    66.2      Erving    66.5      Erving    69.9
Payton     65.7      Allen     64.6      B Wallace 66.1      Horry     68.2
Allen      64.3      Payton    64.4      Pierce    65.7      Reggie    67.2
Erving     61.5      Erving    63.4      Allen     65.0      Ginobili  65.8
Paul       60.4      B Wallace 61.8      Payton    62.3      Allen     65.5
B Wallace  59.1      Paul      59.5      Ginobili  61.1      Billups   65.2
Marion     54.4      Ginobili  56.9      Horry     59.7      Pierce    65.1
Ginobili   54.3      HoGrant   55.2      Billups   59.1      Isiah     61.6
Carter     54.1      P Gasol   53.6      HoGrant   58.2      HoGrant   61.5
HoGrant    53.4      Billups   53.5      Paul      57.9      Payton    60.1
The top 200 average 35.1 RS and 3.33 PO VORP, a ratio of .095
Players above .095 po/rs tend to rise in the ranking as the PO multiplier is increased.
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by Mike G »

Box Plus/Minus for the playoffs is calculated the same way as BPM for the regular season, which a few additions to derive an appropriate team efficiency differential.
The playoff team efficiency, which is used in the team adjustment portion of the BPM calculation, is derived as follows:

Use playoff minutes distribution for each team along with each player's regular season BPM value to generate a "playoff team strength."...
Count games played against each opponent in the playoffs.
Strength of Schedule is the average opponent team rating for the duration of the playoffs.
Add actual playoff efficiency differential to the calculated strength of schedule to get the adjusted team efficiency differential used in the BPM calculation.
This is awesome, if it works. Looking over the top 200 RS VORP players (since 1974), all are above 0.2 BPM and >12,765 minutes (Blake Griffin).

Estimating their career points above average by the formula:
NetPts = BPM*Min/50 -- figuring roughly 50 minutes per 100 possessions ...
... the avg is +1587 pts per player, career
The aggregate RS BPM for this Top 200 is 2.65. This is very close to the median (2.4) and to the unweighted avg (2.63)

Doing the same exercise for their playoff BPM, I get an aggregate of 3.28
On average, they've played in 92 PO games, at 33.5 mpg, and created about 18 more PO points than their RS rates would suggest.

Players with the greatest career PO/RS point differentials; showing PO Minutes, BPM in PO and RS:

Code: Select all

Pts+   PO Overs       MP    PO    RS       Pts+   PO Unders       MP     PO   RS
354   Isiah Thomas   4216   6.4   2.2     -285   Karl Malone     7907   3.6   5.4
299   Michael Jordan 7474  10.1   8.1     -154   Tony Parker     7006    .2   1.3
287   Robert Horry   6823   4.8   2.7     -136   Bob McAdoo      2714   -.4   2.1
253  Hakeem Olajuwon 5749   7.1   4.9     -128   Jack Sikma      3558    .7   2.5
198   Rajon Rondo    3538   5.0   2.2     -121   Gary Payton     5481   2.2   3.3
195   Scottie Pippen 8105   5.9   4.7     -117 Clifford Robinson 3887   -.8    .7
181 Chauncey Billups 5321   4.2   2.5     -113   Detlef Schrempf 3338    .4   2.1
173   Horace Grant   6172   4.0   2.6     -106   Sam Cassell     3539   -.1   1.4
161   LeBron James   6717  10.4   9.2      -95   Kevin Garnett   5283   4.6   5.5
148   Baron Davis    1851   6.7   2.7      -93   David Robinson  4221   6.3   7.4

139   Elvin Hayes    3654   2.8    .9      -84   Sidney Moncrief 3226   2.5   3.8
138   James Worthy   5297   3.1   1.8      -83   Dwyane Wade     5907   5.2   5.9
127   Ben Wallace    4524   5.3   3.9      -77   Dennis Rodman   4789   2.2   3.0
117   Shawn Kemp     2937   3.7   1.7      -76   Carlos Boozer   2942    .1   1.4
110   Jason Kidd     6088   5.1   4.2      -73   Stephon Marbury  938  -2.7   1.2
107   Byron Scott    5365   1.4    .4      -71   Danny Ainge     5038    .6   1.3
107   Maurice Cheeks 4848   3.0   1.9      -66   M R Richardson   712  -1.1   3.5
106   Reggie Miller  5308   4.3   3.3      -65 Dominique Wilkins 2172    .8   2.3
106   Mark Jackson   3776   2.2    .8      -62   Peja Stojakovic 3106    .5   1.5
103   Steve Nash     4289   2.5   1.3 
.                                          -62   Kevin Johnson   3879   1.6   2.4
103   Kevin McHale   5716   3.4   2.5                  
103   Gus Williams   3215   3.5   1.9                  
102   Ron Harper     3000   3.8   2.1                  
99 Anfernee Hardaway 2640   4.5   2.6                  
99   Derrick Coleman 1457   4.7   1.3                  
98   Joe Dumars      4097   1.4    .2                  
97   Pau Gasol       4053   4.7   3.5                  
86   Hersey Hawkins  2529   4.1   2.4                  
86   Jeff Hornacek   4766   3.9   3.0                  
78   Dwight Howard   2603   4.3   2.8                  
Since these are career BPM, players may appear in one or the other list simply because the majority of their PO minutes were within or outside their prime seasons. Garnett and Robinson may suffer from this; Dwight and Penny may benefit.
But what of Ron Harper? He was a star (Cle, LAC) with few playoffs; and later a role player who got lots of deep runs (Chi, LAL).

[Note: These lists are not comprehensive, particularly the 'PO underachiever' side. Some low BPM players would not have made the initial list, yet might have extensive PO Min -- Bill Cartwright comes to mind.]
Note2: LeBron's RS BPM in his playoff seasons (excluding his first 2 years and this season) is 10.3 -- so he hasn't overachieved in PO after all, by this approach.
- Take off Isiah's first and last 2 years (no playoffs) and his RS BPM = 3.0 -- his over is also reduced a bit.
- Without his Wizard seasons, Jordan's RS BPM is 9.0 -- this removes almost half of his 'career over'.
- Rondo's 5 playoff years show RS BPM = 2.9, reducing his net 'over'.
I guess Horry takes the cake, done year by year.
ampersand5
Posts: 262
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Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by ampersand5 »

just an observation - I think some big men might end up underrated on OBPM due to the weight it gives to assists. Some coaches prefer to have their bigs not play within the flow of the offence and only really get the ball on ISOs/around the rim.
Crow
Posts: 10533
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by Crow »

Lauvergne puts up a pretty nice first game. PER and Off. Rtg put him near the mean. OBPM? -6. No assists or off. rebs are the only offensive "crimes" I see. ORs aren't suppose to that important but maybe the combination intensified the impact because of the interactive term?
ampersand5
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by ampersand5 »

Crow wrote:Lauvergne puts up a pretty nice first game. PER and Off. Rtg put him near the mean. OBPM? -6. No assists or off. rebs are the only offensive "crimes" I see. ORs aren't suppose to that important but maybe the combination intensified the impact because of the interactive term?
Similarly, Jonas Valanciunas has great O stats but a poor OBPM (Jonas also happens have a pretty awful offensive ORPM). This is interesting to me as it appears that BPM is outsmarting us. By displaying its correlation with RAPM, its showing us that teams that don't include centres in their offence are inefficient/weak - and even if the centre's boxscore stats are good, they are misleading numbers.

This is giving me serious credence in the belief that a lot of nba coaches are misguided by not including their centres in the flow of their team's offence.
Crow
Posts: 10533
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by Crow »

The Lauvergne case is something I just happened to be looking at for other reasons, not a sufficient critique. But which description sounds more accurate for his game with 3-6 shooting, 3 DRs, 0 assists, 0 0Rs: near mean or awful offense?

Has anyone looked at average BPM by position side by side with other metrics? (Mike G?) Is there most variation in avg. metric performance at PG and C (especially center)? Assist * Reb term may favor the middle position where the role calls for some of both. Worth a look to see if this an issue or not.
colts18
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:52 am

Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by colts18 »

Crow wrote:Lauvergne puts up a pretty nice first game. PER and Off. Rtg put him near the mean. OBPM? -6. No assists or off. rebs are the only offensive "crimes" I see. ORs aren't suppose to that important but maybe the combination intensified the impact because of the interactive term?
MPG?
ampersand5
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: The debut and popularization of BPM

Post by ampersand5 »

I just quickly looked at the players with the highest PERs this year and selected all the players with noticeably low OBPM.
as PER overvalues bigmen, this is not exactly a surprise but I do think there is something more going.

Why do these efficient big men with otherwise seemingly great stats project so poorly in OBPM? Are we overrating them?
Is there something that these big men are missing which makes them less effective than their stats would otherwise display?

Code: Select all


                  PER  OBPM  ORPM  Difference between OBPM and ORPM  
 
 LaMarcus Aldridge  22.5  0  3.06  3.06  
 
 Kenneth Faried  16.9  -0.8  0.92  1.72  
 
 Zach Randolph  20.9  0.7  1.74  1.04  
 
 Paul Millsap  19.9  1.4  2.14  0.74  
 
 Amar'e Stoudemire  19.9  -0.4  0.28  0.68  
 
 Mason Plumlee  19.6  0  0.67  0.67  
 
 Greg Monroe  20.6  0.3  0.84  0.54  
 
 Pau Gasol  22.9  0.8  1.32  0.52  
 
 David Lee  19.9  0.1  0.55  0.45  
 
 DeAndre Jordan  21  1.1  1.42  0.32  
 
 Derrick Favors  22  1.1  1.17  0.07  
 
 David West  17.2  -0.2  -0.15  0.05  
 
 DeMarcus Cousins  24.1  0.7  0.68  -0.02  
 
 Chris Bosh  19.9  0.9  0.7  -0.2  
 
 Tim Duncan  22.2  0.2  -0.4  -0.6  
 
 Nikola Vucevic  22.4  1  -1.57  -2.57  
 
 Jonas Valanciunas  20.2  -0.2  -2.85  -2.65  
Last edited by ampersand5 on Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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