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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3586
Location: Hendersonville, NC
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron, age 21-25 Reply with quote
(I posted this at the 'historic' APBR forum, to a rousing no-response)
Kobe was (perhaps still is) compared to Jordan, and now LeBron is the Man. How comparable are they, really?
LeBron is 25 and has wrapped up his season (and postseason). He and Kobe entered the league after high school, while Jordan was 21 as a rookie.
It might be fair to compare them in the same age interval, so the largest sample we can get would be from ages 21 thru 25.
Here are their regular-seasons, raw per-36-minute averages over the interval:
Code:
21-25 yrs G mpg Pts Reb Ast PF Stl TO Blk 2fg% 3fg% FT%
MJ '85-89 345 39.0 30.2 5.7 5.5 2.9 2.6 3.1 1.1 .522 .202 .848
Kobe '00-04 361 39.4 24.0 5.5 4.8 2.7 1.6 2.7 .6 .484 .329 .840
LBJ '06-10 389 40.1 26.4 6.6 6.4 1.8 1.5 2.9 .9 .527 .330 .740
This includes Jordan's mostly-missing 2nd season and omits the others' first 2-3 years in the league.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... i?id=0Hmzr
At this point, Jordan's 5 playoffs have been 1-3, 0-3, 0-3, 4-6, 9-8; winning 3 series, losing 5, reaching the ECF once.
Kobe at the same age got 3 rings, 4 Finals trips in 5 years.
LeBron's gotten past round 1 each year; going 7-6, 12-8, 7-6, 10-4, 6-5 -- 68% wins in playoffs, 8-5 in series.
How were their individual stats in their 5 playoff runs? Per36 again:
Code:
PO G mpg Pts Reb Ast PF Stl TO Blk 2fg% 3fg% FT% TS%
MJ 37 42.7 29.8 5.8 5.6 3.2 2.1 3.3 .9 .518 .288 .832 .589
Kobe 91 42.7 21.9 4.5 4.3 2.8 1.3 2.4 .6 .454 .330 .795 .522
LBJ 71 43.5 24.3 7.0 6.1 2.0 1.4 3.1 .8 .504 .316 .743 .561
LeBron has Jordan beat in Reb, Ast, and 3pt%
Let's see their 'advanced' playoff stats.
Code:
PO PER TS% Reb% Ast% Stl% Blk% TO% Usg% ORtg DRtg WS WS/48
MJ 28.8 .589 9.3 31.6 3.0 1.6 11.5 35.2 119 107 7.7 .235
Kobe 21.4 .522 7.1 22.7 1.9 1.4 10.4 29.8 108 104 12.8 .158
LBJ 27.1 .561 11.7 36.4 2.1 1.8 12.5 32.8 114 101 14.7 .229
I can't really explain these stats fully. PER is an overall rating that's adjusted for 'pace'. Reb% is per 100 rebounds. Blk% is per 100 2-pt shots (so LeBron steps ahead of Jordan).
Win Shares (WS) are highly tied to team success, as is Defensive Rating. Even with his team's mediocre W-L in the early years, Jordan is still the standard bearer in per-minute wins created.
Last column is WS per 48 minutes, where .100 is average.
For closure, advanced regular-seasons:
Code:
RS PER TS% Reb% Ast% Stl% Blk% TO% Usg% ORtg DRtg WS WS/48
MJ 29.6 .589 9.1 27.1 3.5 1.8 10.7 33.8 120 104 73.4 .262
Kobe 24.0 .549 8.5 24.8 2.3 1.2 11.2 30.4 112 102 60.3 .204
LBJ 28.8 .576 10.7 35.6 2.2 1.9 11.3 33.1 117 102 83.9 .258
Through age 25, LeBron's seen more playoffs than Mike, doing essentially as well, and with much greater (team) success.
To maintain that lead, he'll have to get something like 6 titles in the next 10 years.
My guess is that he'll stop trying to be superman all year and save more for the playoffs. Home court advantage is not the holy grail.
Kobe belongs to another level. Through age 25, he's more comparable to Wade, McGrady, Penny.
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36% of all statistics are wrong
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ryan.
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
BUT KOBEH HAS TEH KILLA INSTINKT & SHOOTIN' ABILATIEZ
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keptic
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll offer an opinion. If you exclude Bryant's first 4 seasons (1996-1999) and Jordan's first 2 seasons (1984-1985) and last 2 seasons (2002-2003). Comparing, Bryant's 10 seasons (2000-present) with Jordan's 11 seasons (1986-1993, 1995-1998). Along with accolades. Bryant, earned 8 All-NBA, 8 All-D 1st Team selections. 1 MVPs, 5 Titles, 7 Finals. Jordan, earned 10 All-NBA, 9 All-D 1st Team selections. 5 MVPs, 1 DPOYs, 6 Titles, 6 Finals. They are comparable, in my opinion.
Code:
REGULAR SEASON
GM MIN FGM FGA 3PM 3PA FTM FTA REB AST STL BLK PTS
BRYANT 755 29787 7489 16434 1104 3228 5468 6490 4356 3963 1253 389 21550
JORDAN 830 32292 9975 19733 543 1600 6063 7244 5238 4478 2073 738 26506
GP MPG FGM FGA 3PM 3PA FTM FTA RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
BRYANT 76 39.5 9.9 21.8 1.5 4.3 7.3 8.6 5.8 5.3 1.7 0.5 28.5
JORDAN 75 38.9 12.0 23.8 0.7 1.9 7.3 8.7 6.3 5.4 2.5 0.9 31.9
Code:
PLAYOFFS
GM MIN FGM FGA 3PM 3PA FTM FTA REB AST STL BLK PTS
BRYANT 148 6286 1512 3345 224 657 1011 1225 842 794 225 87 4259
JORDAN 172 7168 2106 4324 146 437 1381 1669 1110 971 358 150 5739
GP MPG FGM FGA 3PM 3PA FTM FTA RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
BRYANT 16 42.5 10.2 22.6 1.5 4.4 6.8 8.3 5.7 5.4 1.5 0.6 28.8
JORDAN 16 41.7 12.2 25.1 0.8 2.5 8.0 9.7 6.5 5.6 2.1 0.9 33.4
Code:
NBA FINALS
GM MIN FGM FGA 3PM 3PA FTM FTA REB AST STL BLK PTS
BRYANT 32 1405 300 718 46 145 213 252 189 166 60 26 859
JORDAN 35 1506 438 911 42 114 258 320 203 209 62 23 1176
GP MPG FGM FGA 3PM 3PA FTM FTA RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
BRYANT 5 43.9 9.4 22.4 1.4 4.5 6.7 7.9 5.9 5.2 1.9 0.8 26.8
JORDAN 6 43.0 12.5 26.0 1.2 3.3 7.4 9.1 5.8 6.0 1.8 0.7 33.6
Other statistics, turnovers, personal fouls, were almost identical, but removed from each table for space constraints.
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ryan.
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:05 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Everybody's comparable.
But even with your linear measurements, they're not exactly close.