Rookies 2023

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Mike G
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Rookies 2023

Post by Mike G »

With about 13% of the season's games played, rookies are producing at a pace of about 41 equivalent-wins for the season.
The Eastern Conference is getting about 60% of these eWins.

Code: Select all

e82    per36 rates      tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast  Stl   TO   Blk   e484
9.5   Paolo Banchero   Orl   381  .543   21.6   9.2   3.1   .8   3.2  1.0   1.60
4.7 Bennedict Mathurin Ind   283  .597   20.8   4.6   2.4   .5   2.9   .1    .97
4.1   Jaden Ivey       Det   318  .519   14.2   5.3   3.5  1.8   2.8   .6    .82
3.1   Tari Eason       Hou   196  .536   12.1   9.7   1.1  2.1   1.4  1.2   1.01
2.4   Walker Kessler   Uta   132  .671   12.8  11.1   1.5   .5   1.3  3.5   1.26

2.1   Keegan Murray    Sac   257  .563   12.4   5.0   1.4   .9   2.1  1.0    .42
1.8   AJ Griffin       Atl    72  .712   22.6   3.4   1.4  2.2    .5   .0   1.46
1.6   Shaedon Sharpe   Por   202  .562   13.9   4.9    .8   .7   1.4   .5    .46
1.4   Andrew Nembhard  Ind   171  .518    9.0   3.9   4.8  1.2   1.4   .2    .47
1.3   Jalen Duren      Det   167  .518    9.5   9.7    .2   .2   2.0  2.4    .48

e82    per36 rates      tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast  Stl   TO   Blk   e484
1.2   Jake LaRavia     Mem   151  .712   11.7   7.2    .7   .7    .9   .4    .51
1.2   Jeremy Sochan    SAS   226  .481    7.5   6.1   2.1  1.5   1.3   .8    .34
1.0   Dyson Daniels    NOP    47  .679   13.8   8.1   3.3  2.0   2.1  1.4   1.22
.7   Jabari Smith Jr.  Hou   297  .424    8.3   7.0    .8   .2   1.6  1.4    .16
.7    Jalen Williams   OKC   119  .573   11.8   3.0   2.1  2.0   2.4   .6    .36
.7   Christian Koloko  Tor   195  .443    6.2   8.0   1.0   .5   1.6  2.9    .24
The average NBA player is good for 1.00 eW per 484 minutes played
Crow
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Crow »

3 of top 6 here I had significantly higher on draft board than Twitter consensus and actual pick number. 1 about the same, 2 lower.

Smith at 14th here is worst under-performance to date, at least for those making appearances in top 15. Davis, Dieng and Duren are lottery picks who did not make top 15 here.

Banchero 13th on BPM. Smith 30th. Other under-performers to date out there.
Mike G
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Mike G »

Crow wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:41 am Banchero 13th on BPM. Smith 30th. ...
Where do you find such a list?
Crow
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Crow »

https://www.basketball-reference.com/dr ... _2022.html

Click BPM column (or whatever else you want) to sort / rank.
Mike G
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Mike G »

Thanks, I just found it.
Among rookies with at least 60 minutes, he's 4th in BPM and in WS/48 -- behind Kessler, Eason, Griffin.
Ranking guys with 4 or 6 total minutes is not very meaningful. That's why I multiply by minutes, for total impact.
Crow
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Crow »

Often I'll qualify a list but sometimes I don't. Real early, many of the minute totals are trivial, even if way more than the super trivial.

Banchero at 4th for guys with semi-meaningful minutes is closer to my big board rank of 5th than it is the actual selection and the many media boards that had him 1st or 2nd.

Big role, big individual game level stats don't necessarily mean big positive impact.
Crow
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Crow »

DARKO projection has Banchero at 119th overall but 2nd most improved over pre-season estimate.

Very impressed with first 7 games, rising about 3 points; but not impressed with next 4, giving back a point. Not sure I see reason for the very different views. We'll probably get stronger estimates after 20 and 40 games.
Mike G
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Mike G »

With the season at 22%, rookies are on pace to produce 45 eWins.

Code: Select all

e82   per36 rates   tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk  e484
5.8 Paolo Banchero Orl   381  .543   22.3   9.1   3.2    .8   3.1   .9  1.62
5.4   B Mathurin   Ind   475  .593   23.0   5.0   1.9    .6   2.9   .1  1.14
4.3   Jaden Ivey   Det   603  .512   15.1   5.5   4.0   1.3   2.9   .4   .83
4.0   Tari Eason   Hou   313  .516   13.6   9.7   1.5   2.7   1.6   .9  1.26
2.5 Walker Kessler Uta   258  .664   12.0  11.6   1.4    .5   1.6  3.4  1.15

2.2  Jabari Smith  Hou   483  .456   10.0   8.3    .8    .4   1.4  1.3   .46
2.2   Jalen Duren  Det   381  .562    9.0  11.3    .5    .8   1.5  1.6   .68
2.0   AJ Griffin   Atl   237  .614   17.3   4.1   1.3   1.7   1.4   .1   .90
1.8 Jalen Williams OKC   345  .584   13.1   3.8   3.0   1.2   2.1   .5   .54
1.7   A Nembhard   Ind   282  .577   10.8   3.8   4.5   1.5   1.5   .1   .60

e82   per36 rates   tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk  e484
1.3 Shaedon Sharpe Por   357  .576   14.0   4.4    .7    .4   1.4   .4   .40
1.1  Keegan Murray Sac   443  .529   11.2   4.6   1.1   1.0   1.9   .7   .26
1.1  Dyson Daniels NOP   143  .566    9.8   8.2   2.6   1.6   1.2  1.2   .84
1.0  Jeremy Sochan SAS   447  .507    9.0   6.0   1.9   1.2   2.3   .7   .24
.8   C Koloko      Tor   317  .487    7.0   7.8    .8    .4   1.3  2.6   .28

.8   Nikola Jović  Mia   145  .518   12.6   6.3   2.1   1.2   1.9   .0   .61
.7   Jamal Cain    Mia    80  .554   12.3   7.1   1.9   2.2    .8   .0   .93
.7   Jake LaRavia  Mem   254  .557    9.0   6.1   1.5   1.1   1.6   .4   .27
.6  Jabari Walker  Por    76  .548    9.3   9.1   3.4    .4    .9   .4   .78
.5   M Beauchamp   Mil   227  .470   10.5   6.7    .8   1.0   2.5   .3   .23
This presumes Banchero continues to play in only 61% of games.
Crow
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Crow »

Griffin's short minutes impact ranking, as do many meh to weak stats. Long-term value? Too early to say with confidence.



Heat's ability to find and use cheap new players helps a little in context of their over-pays of Lowry, Robinson and Herro, all negative on team +/- ob the court and on / off. DRIP still favorable on Lowry (may need movement down) but only neutral on Herro and -1 on Robinson.
Mike G
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Mike G »

Season 28.5% complete, rookies project to add 46 equivalent wins to their teams.

Code: Select all

e82   per36 rates    tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
5.3  Paolo Banchero Orl   586  .540   19.7   7.2   3.1    .8   3.0   .6   1.28
4.8   Be. Mathurin  Ind   645  .560   20.2   4.9   1.6    .8   2.4   .1   1.01
3.8   Tari Eason    Hou   428  .497   12.5  10.4   1.3   2.3   1.5   .7   1.19
3.6   Jaden Ivey    Det   667  .509   14.5   5.5   3.9   1.3   3.1   .3    .79
3.0  Walker Kessler Uta   364  .725   13.0  11.6   1.1    .4   1.4  3.7   1.27

2.9   Jabari Smith  Hou   655  .498   11.1   8.5    .8    .4   1.4  1.1    .59
2.3   AJ Griffin    Atl   356  .601   16.8   3.7   1.1   2.0   1.4   .1    .87
2.3   Jalen Duren   Det   476  .574    9.0  10.8    .8    .9   1.6  1.5    .71
2.0  Jalen Williams OKC   479  .601   13.8   4.2   2.9    .9   2.3   .4    .56
1.8 Andrew Nembhard Ind   411  .588   10.8   3.9   4.7   1.3   1.8   .3    .58

e82   per36 rates    tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
1.7  Keegan Murray  Sac   567  .533   12.0   5.4    .9   1.0   2.0   .8    .39
1.6  Dyson Daniels  NOP   281  .582    9.5   7.5   3.5   1.3   1.4   .6    .75
1.1  Shaedon Sharpe Por   462  .541   12.6   4.5    .7    .5   1.3   .4    .34
1.1  Jeremy Sochan  SAS   497  .504    8.8   5.9   2.1   1.4   2.2   .7    .30
1.0   Chr. Koloko   Tor   387  .496    7.2   8.2    .7    .4   1.2  2.5    .34
By b-r.com position designation:
PF 15.7
SG 15.4
C 6.8
SF 6.4
PG 1.8

Pels' Daniels with almost all the point guard minutes and eWins. With better assist rates, Nembhard and Ivey have 16% and 14% of their minutes at PG, respectively.
Mike G
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Mike G »

Right at 3/8 of the season, rookies project to total 48.6 eWins.

Code: Select all

e82    per36 rates   tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
6.3  Paolo Banchero Orl   871  .544   19.9   7.3   3.4   1.0   3.1   .7   1.36
4.3   Be. Mathurin  Ind   898  .541   18.5   5.0   1.5    .8   2.2   .1    .87
3.7  Walker Kessler Uta   523  .721   13.4  12.2   1.0    .5   1.3  3.8   1.38
3.7   Tari Eason    Hou   566  .512   13.0  10.1   1.3   2.1   1.6   .9   1.14
3.2   Jaden Ivey    Det   844  .499   14.1   5.2   3.8   1.2   3.1   .3    .70

3.1   Jabari Smith  Hou   880  .502   11.3   8.7    .7    .5   1.5  1.1    .61
3.0   Jalen Duren   Det   667  .600    9.4  12.5    .9    .9   1.8  1.3    .84
2.4   AJ Griffin    Atl   580  .571   15.6   3.7   1.3   1.8   1.4   .2    .75
2.0  Keegan Murray  Sac   780  .557   12.6   5.0    .7   1.0   1.6   .8    .44
2.0  Jalen Williams OKC   730  .569   12.6   4.1   2.9    .9   2.1   .5    .49

e82    per36 rates   tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
1.9   An. Nembhard  Ind   666  .581   10.6   4.1   4.4   1.4   2.0   .3    .53
1.4  Dyson Daniels  NOP   441  .592    9.2   6.3   3.3   1.2   1.5   .4    .54
1.2  Shaedon Sharpe Por   600  .529   12.2   4.8    .8    .7   1.2   .4    .37
1.1  Jeremy Sochan  SAS   576  .484    8.4   6.4   2.5   1.2   2.2   .7    .32
.8   Ma. Beauchamp  Mil   295  .520   12.8   6.6   1.2   1.3   2.6   .2    .49

.8   Ch. Koloko     Tor   504  .489    6.4   7.7    .9    .5   1.1  2.7    .29
.7   David Roddy    Mem   559  .494   10.2   5.2   1.1    .5   1.4   .6    .22
.6   Nikola Jović   Mia   184  .525   12.5   5.6   1.7   1.3   1.9   .2    .54
.5  Moussa Diabaté  LAC    90  .579   12.4  12.3    .7   1.2   1.9   .4   1.00
.5   A.J. Green     Mil    69  .745   21.3   3.8   1.7    .5   1.0   .0   1.15
Crow
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Crow »

Jabari Smith near -4 / 100p on BPM. Near -1 on DRIP. A bit worse than -2 on EPM. Near -3 on Darko and 62nd of 66 rookies on that projection.

To interpret that set of marks, one could evaluate the metrics as part of the process.

Offensive usage is a big part of the score, though the metrics vary on reward for that per se and efficiency. Defense surely varies; and while some are probably better than others, not sure how good even the best are.
Mike G
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Mike G »

Jabari Smith starts over fellow rookie Tari Eason, though it looks like Eason is better at everything. Their on/off rates are spectacularly different, the Rockets about 26 pts/100 better with Eason instead of Smith.

Yet the team is projecting about 5 wins better than predicted (avg.), and the coach doesn't seem to be an idiot. Maybe their bench is keeping them in games and winning a few.
DarkStar48
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by DarkStar48 »

Code: Select all

Rookie      Tm   Min   BR-BPM   BP-BPM   538_RAPTOR
Eason       Hou  566   -0.1     0.4      3.5
Kessler     Uta  523   2.3      0.7      2.6
Banchero    Orl  871   0.5      0.9      -0.2
Mathurin    Ind  898   -3.0     -1.3     -0.2
BR-BPM: Basketball Reference Box Plus-Minus
BP-BPM: Backpicks Box Plus-Minus
RAPTOR: FiveThirtyEight Robust Algorithm (using) Player Tracking (and) On/Off Ratings

It’s looking like Kessler and Eason (No. 22 & 17) may be the best rookies so far.
Mike G
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Re: Rookies 2023

Post by Mike G »

My spreadsheet estimates that Eason has played against (and with) about 46% starting players.
This is somewhat corroborated by seeing his 4 highest minute games (23-29 min) have all been double-digit losses.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... melog/2023
Sorting by GameScore returns a similar breakdown, plus a 2*OT win over Philly.

A lot of players, perhaps most, will rack up better numbers against bench players. Jabari Smith is estimated at 79% vs starters. Banchero plays the most minutes in close games, est. 76% vs opposing starters. Mathurin 54%, Kessler 50%

It's hard to generalize what those numbers mean. Kessler is certainly in elite FG% territory, but his points are entirely within a few feet of the basket. Check out the new b-r.com shooting pages! --
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... oting/2023

Only potential weak point I can see is that in close games (< 5 pts) he has only hit 64%
-- well, and he's a 54% FT shooter.
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